Automatic Programming

Hiram · Post by **Hiram** » 24 May 2009, 15:54

ph0bYx wrote:I would have to agree with cats on this one.
"Only those who take the time to learn, are worthy of programming. "
And I too hate the idea.

Now that you're a Hacker, programming has to be done in a way which
facilitates you, a way which takes a friendly path.
You're right learning may need time, but it's not about taking time,
delay isn't a principle, it's about achieving your goal!

moudy · Post by **moudy** » 24 May 2009, 16:29

Hiram wrote:
moudy wrote:im not into programming (yet) but i know that at one point this application that " automatically writes applications" was written by some one ""manually"". So whats the use of depending on some thing that where there is better equivalent, which is learning the programming language its self. This doesn't have to be quick, things can take pretty much time, and this is expected especially if you're no totally devoted to learning such stuff.

Does this mean that when you start programming you will make your
own tools to use?
From what I can see you don't seem to like programs written by
someone!
What kind of programming are you going to learn then?

When you actually learn programing you'll have the necessary knowledge to write an application, whether in C++, java, perl, u can always find your way out.
To tell you the truth Hiram, I have no issue with others writing applications, and me using them... My goal as a future hacker/programmer is to use an application and know how this application works.
Well, about the programming language... I think C++ is good. Actually all languages are good... The best thing you do is devoting your time to learn a single programming language, and then learning other languages becomes some thing easy

Post by **ayu** » 24 May 2009, 16:34

Hiram, try to fit everything into one post instead of triple-posting

Hiram · Post by **Hiram** » 25 May 2009, 08:42

cats wrote:Hiram, try to fit everything into one post instead of triple-posting

I prefer responding to each person individually!

Hiram · Post by **Hiram** » 25 May 2009, 08:59

moudy wrote: When you actually learn programing you'll have the necessary knowledge to write an application, whether in C++, java, perl, u can always find your way out.
Well, about the programming language... I think C++ is good. Actually all languages are good... The best thing you do is devoting your time to learn a single programming language, and then learning other languages becomes some thing easy

Life is all about living it. You have to know what you need to live life.
You can lust for antiques to appreciate steps of development, but
their purposes will be outdated!
You can fall in love, but love can not fall in you!

Do you get this well?
Love will need your heart to exist. Come on, not your real heart, but a feeling
of passion.
Software exists because of the idea of making automatic systems. The idea
of trying to make machines think and assist humans. Resisting that idea means
resisting progress of software!

mystikblaze · Post by **mystikblaze** » 25 May 2009, 09:28

Hiram · Post by **Hiram** » 25 May 2009, 09:53

mystikblaze wrote:I just would like to point out that "hiram" means sin in arabic.

In Hebrew it does well!

It means "High-born"

Post by **Lundis** » 26 May 2009, 02:41

Hiram wrote: I prefer responding to each person individually!

You responded to me twice and spelled my name wrong the second time, but whatever

Have you done programming? I'm not saying that completely automatic coding won't happen, but I don't believe it will in at least 40-50 years. Compilers already write code automatically, just compare assembly and C++

I got the impression that you meant someone would suddenly come up with this magic code writing software. Of course compilers and languages will get more advanced in the future, but it takes time, a lot of time. We'll still need to write code to make the "program" understand what it should do.

There's also another path, which is software like gamemaker, for an example. They already exist, but if you've tried it you know there are obvious limits, which can't be passed unless you code manually.

Post by **ph0bYx** » 26 May 2009, 03:22

Look

Imagine a poet using a program that writes his songs with just a few clicks, imagine a writer using a program that writes his novels with just a few clicks, imagine a painter using a program that paints his paintings for him in just a few clicks of the mouse.
I'm discussed by the idea.
Sure you'll make a few programs a bit faster than the regular programmer, and become more respected in the programmer community... NOT!
A developer, programmer always stood for long hours spent in front of the computer dealing with code that a mortal human would pass out just by looking at it. And now this automated programming would kill the spirit.
Sure it would be handy in a couple of situations and it would speed up the coding time, but using it is... wrong.
A cop pulls you over my mistake because of speed driving, but you know you weren't speed driving and you have a gun with you. So why not kill the cop and continue instead of wasting 5 minutes for nothing? You can't! Because it's wrong, because it's a crime just like that automated programming. It is a crime in the programming world, because you're killing the exercise and knowledge that you'll gain by programming it manually.

Hiram · Post by **Hiram** » 26 May 2009, 05:37

ph0bYx wrote:Look

Imagine a poet using a program that writes his songs with just a few clicks, imagine a writer using a program that writes his novels with just a few clicks, imagine a painter using a program that paints his paintings for him in just a few clicks of the mouse.
...............................................

A cop pulls you over my mistake because of speed driving, but you know you weren't speed driving and you have a gun with you. So why not kill the cop and continue instead of wasting 5 minutes for nothing? You can't! Because it's wrong, because it's a crime just like that automated programming. It is a crime in the programming world, because you're killing the exercise and knowledge that you'll gain by programming it manually.

We can not have a program which can think and write songs for singers.
As I said before, humans think, set parameters and then hand
over the work to machines to assist them, just like you use a compiler
to produce executable code which you would have written yourself.

Automation doesn't take away the exercise of programming, but it
aims at reducing mistakes and prevent the burden of debugging. People
use calculators to reduce mistakes though they know how to calculate.

Lastly, I brought this topic to have members mention advantages
and disadvantages, and I judge the importance of this kind of
programming, but not discouraging learners from learning!

moudy · Post by **moudy** » 26 May 2009, 08:50

c'mon guys, i think the ideas in this topic are reapeating them selves
As for Hiram, we are not against ur idea, BUT in the community of computer skills, u never stop learning, and to learn u have to do things with ur hands, and thus, u have to avoid using automated stuff, so u would enhance continuous learning

Hiram · Post by **Hiram** » 27 May 2009, 06:39

Hey moudy, what about your idea of learning all programming
languages, probably from way back from the history of computers and
may be including antiques?
Because you wrote:

Well, about the programming language... I think C++ is good. Actually all languages are good... The best thing you do is devoting your time to learn a single programming language, and then learning other languages becomes some thing easy

Post by **ph0bYx** » 27 May 2009, 07:05

Learning all languages?

What moudy meant is that almost all the programming languages have similar syntax, and when you learn one other will become much easier to understand and learn.
In that quoted text I don't see anywhere where moudy wrote anything about learning all languages

Post by **ayu** » 27 May 2009, 07:29

Hiram wrote:
cats wrote:Hiram, try to fit everything into one post instead of triple-posting
I prefer responding to each person individually!

That was not a request ....

You can respond to them individually in one post

moudy · Post by **moudy** » 27 May 2009, 09:51

Hiram wrote:Hey moudy, what about your idea of learning all programming
languages, probably from way back from the history of computers and
may be including antiques?
Because you wrote:

well hiram,
I think you should take this to the debate board
coz its not a coding question any more, it is a debatable issue