Why do you want to hide ?

[floodhound2]

I am trying to understand the philosophy of staying anonymous and perhaps you can help me.

I use to try to hide from the government. I found that the reason I was trying to stay anonymous was because I was making electronic explosives, smoking a lot of weed and breaking the law in general. This behavior was the sole reason to hide. Once I became a professional and or matured the need to stay anonymous was no longer needed. I proudly admit to my government that I am open for probing, but be aware that I own guns and have knowledge of my rights. Hell i married a lawyer and so the anonymous type of life is not needed or is it?

Let me know your reasons and if you think about it if the government is going to pick little you for an investigation, then I would take that as a complement.

[ayu]

Well, I guess some people just want to stay hidden, don't want to spread their tracks all over the net ^^

My reason is that I file share a lot, and being caught is not on my wish list, even if the risk is very small.

[floodhound2]

So you admit that the sole reason you wish to hide is because you are breaking the laws? Not that I care shoot I download like crazy but I don't file share.

Hum others please respond ...

[ayu]

So you admit that the sole reason you wish to hide is because you are breaking the laws?

Bingo ^^

[bad_brain]

I think the point is that every personal information that made it into the internet is not under your control anymore...and nobody knows how long the info will stay there and for what it might be used.
ok, many people of "our kind" are maybe a little paranoid about privacy, but when you see what the average internet user does there is reason to be alarmed...for example: enough teenagers post pics and vids of parties when they were drunk as hell, right? well, nowadays it's already almost normal that companies check the internet for infos about the people they want to hire, now guess what will happen if they find those pics...

the main reason why I protect my privacy as much as possible is because I want to decide who gets what kind of info about me....profiling is a big business on the net, and I don't want to be in any company/government databases if I can prevent it.

[floodhound2]

I think the point is that every personal information that made it into the internet is not under your control anymore...and nobody knows how long the info will stay there and for what it might be used.

Good point but if we are speaking about governments then no matter what format it is stored on (digital or paper) it is going to be stored. As far as a particular individual then he or she could be dealt with in other means.

ok, many people of "our kind" are maybe a little paranoid about privacy, but when you see what the average internet user does there is reason to be alarmed...for example: enough teenagers post pics and vids of parties when they were drunk as hell, right? well, nowadays it's already almost normal that companies check the internet for infos about the people they want to hire, now guess what will happen if they find those pics...

Another great point, but one who posts a provocative picture of one self just invited everyone in to there private life and the chances are real good that it will be a haunting issue to deal with. There is always the photoshop excuse. "Err thats not me that was photoshoped"

the main reason why I protect my privacy as much as possible is because I want to decide who gets what kind of info about me....profiling is a big business on the net, and I don't want to be in any company/government databases if I can prevent it.

And to just argue with the boss

You may disclose X amount of selective information to a seemingly trusted individual, but this in turn can back fire. Basically all you are doing is selecting who, or "the guy" that will post or keep your data about you as spamming blackmail later.

What I am trying to say is why bother? Sure you wont see me posting any pictures of me and my prick in the shower, but again I can not hide everything. I would rather Fight then hide in shadows. Obviously if I am to hack a site, object or other unknown variables I will try to lay low. Then again if I were noticed I will stand up to the challenge.


Cats nice that you are honest Now where the hell is DNR's retort, I am positive he has a good one?

[ayu]

What I am trying to say is why bother? Sure you wont see me posting any pictures of me and my prick in the shower, but again I can not hide everything. I would rather Fight then hide in shadows. Obviously if I am to hack a site, object or other unknown variables I will try to lay low. Then again if I were noticed I will stand up to the challenge.

Well, personally I bother because the internet is kind of a dangerous place to be open in, if even a slightest info about you gets out, it can spread like a fire in a summer dry forest. I mean people who use myspace and communities like that, I often read about people getting their identities stolen there and used for bad crap.

Then there's all kinds of pictures that can end up anywhere, and anyhow. I have a pretty funny, yet good example of this in a way ^^

I use Amsn on Linux and it's set to cache all the personal images of all the users in my list. And, one day a chick flashed a boobie pic real quick on her display picture to show a friend or something, because it was only there for a few seconds. But, I checked my cache and, hey!, there it was. It took only 2 seconds for a bad picture of her to spread on the internet to a remote location ^^

Now of course that was fucking stupid of her, but that is just an example of how things might go xD

Anyway, bottom line is, that I want as little info about me as possible to get out ^^ the smaller risk there is for anyone to find out about my internet activities and who I am in real, the better ^^

[DNR]

WTF!

The reason you don't get a DNR retort in every thread is because my ass is WORKING. I can't afford to camp out in IRC and a forum like you cheap motherfuckers

Alright - Floodie is speaking the real truth here. I mean really, are intellectuals such a threat to the government and society that they must be monitored? I don't plan on blowing the fuck out of people with IEDs or steal oil, so why me?

All this damn time I was trying to hint at the ultimate ninja hack - to be invisible. A real damn elite hack means you leave nothing behind, not a damn fingerprint, not a damn defaced webpage.

The idea behind cats defense is if you don't have any evidence on someone, you can't use it against them. People twist words and facts around to suit themselves. the less you give them, the less they have to fuck you over with.

Get invisible, and do it for a reason.

DNR

*fucking edited for godamn spelling errors, goddammit thats two seconds of my life I'll never get back!

[Lyecdevf]

AVG put up this website called hugsforhackers.com where they try to reintegrate the caught hackers back into socierty. Among those hackers there is this one girl that I of course had to take notice because I am not gay and because she looked atractive called CyberS1rene. She was this identity thief. In that pic the had of her it looked like the system came really hard down on her. I am just going to call it the system. For me the system is the law, the politicians and the little people who follow the rules and too blind to see beyond the lies.

The system likes nothing better than to take you down and than point at some illegal activity that you were doing. In this case it was stealing money. So if they can pin that on you than you have just screwed your self big time. So you have to be really careful! When I think about hacking I never think about stealing money. Because once money is in play it is a whole other issue. For the system to arrest you they have to charge you with some thing. If you are not stealing any thing than the issue becomes more delicate for them. Like DNR has said once. You need to become a hard target.

I live with the idea that the system can come any day to arrest me and throw me in jail. What I find comforting is that I know that if they were to put me in front of a court with out any serious offenses I could down play it, make the look dumb and present the issue the way I would want it. I think the system knows that. They know I am smart and that to get me in jail it would be a tough fight. Maybe a kind of fight they would rather not go into.

If you have watched Freedome Downtime the one thing they keep talking about is how in court it is all about winning or losing. If they build a solid case you lose if not you walk away. In the process there is going to be a lot of politics, some justice maybe a few tears but in the end if the system can not win then it was all a big waste of time and energy.

So at some point it does not even matter if you are invisible or not. If the system believe that going after some one like you may not be worth it you are as good as being invisible.

[computathug]

"To be, or not to be" that is the question?

Of course you have heard this famous quote but how many have really understood its value in words?, probably not so many. How many have heard of it but never read the verse or heard it spoken?

For those who would like to and those who would like to refresh their memories:

William Shakespeare - To be, or not to be (from Hamlet 3/1)

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

This to me speaks volumes. I am also a great believer in good karma. So behind this theory of mine as i said above, there's two sides to every coin. Everyone who has a reason to be invisible, has a reason to be visible. Even if you work as a spy for the government, there is still a reason to be visible. You would always need a checkable background.

What i mean by this is like floodhound2 says,

So you admit that the sole reason you wish to hide is because you are breaking the laws?

When trying to remain anonymous in what ever illegal activity you are doing, this is all fine if this is a short term resolution to what you are trying to achieve, but what if its a long term idea.

We don't all work for the government so rewriting our history isn't an option here. How far do you want to take this anonymity and what do you wish to gain? As B_B mentioned there's that many things in place that the authorities above can create a personal profile on you in minutes if they need too, with bank statements, public memberships, reward cards....the list is endless. You could say well cash is the better option. This is fine as i well know but then you have the things in life which just cant be done this way. Mortgages is just one example. Ok, you might say well save the cash and then buy it, next you have the point of providing evidence of how this money was earned from the inland revenue.

This brings me onto the reason to be visible. The easiest thing would be to do nothing. Just to carry on living the life of riley until one day it all comes closing down on you. One wrong move and then its over. try accounting for 10 years when one of these authorities comes asking questions and then the next ones will come and the next ones will come. Every single detail needs to be accountable for.

To combat this you create a profile, one that blends into the community, the everyday person, that stops people asking questions. If people see you and know nothing of you it makes them more inquisitive to know!

Something you generally know about helps so that you can sound quite knowledgeable and happy to talk about the subject to those who would like to listen. A visual disguise, i call this an illusion. This is not something that just happened over night. You have all heard of money laundering. That's ok when you have millions in a safe haven somewhere to retire on but some people just gamble, drink and party it all away. This is life laundering. You take one part of my dirty life and make it into a clean life. Do it at the same time and people should only see one side to you. The nice guy that works for himself and goes and repairs there computers. That chatty little geeky guy with glasses that no one looks twice at in the street. The most that they could get me on that front would be the tax man from all the businesses that have not been paid tax on. Too bad, i have covered them tracks already XD.

I have mingled with many types of people from all walks of life to hide my other activities. Fast food shops, pubs, window cleaning, there's lots you can do to provide at least some info if you need to. Retirement is setting in and the risk and buzz vs the punishment is becoming less inviting everyday i get older. I am also hoping that what i once dreamed of is now reachable and its back to the drawing book. I have also been preparing for this time subconsciously. My schooling, the trades that i have learned and the experience in life has been preparing myself for this time. Its nearly time to give up the ghost and let the the visible life take over and see how far i can push my limits legally. Its all been about a good balance of life and if i can use computers as an end all then i will have achieved nothing more and nothing less than i could have hoped for.

I have enjoyed my life but soon and very soon its all going to be back above board for the first time in a very long time.

Even a hacker has two profiles unless as DNR says

ultimate ninja hack - to be invisible. A real damn elite hack means you leave nothing behind, not a damn fingerprint

But that's just while you are doing illegal activities, isn't it? No. If you are using a computer or others are in the same household then 1 slightest little smudge will help them lead back to that pc. The best option if you are unsure about your anonymity is obviously to go war driving somewhere, and not the house next door

So most of us could say that we have this split personality: the public personality and our private personality, only the ones who know are the ones who need to know. Its how we show them that matters

[Still_Learning]

I think people need a source to stay anonymous so the government does not become so strong that they can control everything in everybodys life at anytime. How do you think America was built? They had secret ways to contact each other to rebel against the English. Do you really want someone spying on you all the time whenever they want? I say HELL NO.. people need a certain amount of privacy.

It is big business and politicians, the 5% of the people that control 95% of all the money/ there must always be a underground for check and balances. There should never be one entity or person or whatever that rules everything however they want and can do whatever they want.
Its like the yin and the yang. Without it everyone would be slaves and zombies just doing what the man says or else.

[DNR]

what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect

There it is c-thug.

DNR

[Big-E]

I am going to quote the "social contract" by Jean Jaques Rousseau, a famous Conflict Theorist of the 18th Century.

The passage (3) from the state of nature to the civil state produces a very remarkable change in man, by substituting justice for instinct in his conduct, and giving his actions the morality they had formerly lacked. Then only, when the voice of duty takes the place of physical impulses and right of appetite, does man, who so far had considered only himself, find that he is forced to act on different principles, and to consult his reason before listening to his inclinations. Although, in this state, he deprives himself of some advantages which he got from nature, he gains in return others so great, his faculties are so stimulated and developed, his ideas so extended, his feelings so ennobled, and his whole soul so uplifted that, did not the abuses of this new condition often degrade him below that which he left, he would be bound to bless continually the happy moment which took him from it for ever, and, instead of a stupid and unimaginative animal, made him an intelligent being and a man.

Let us draw up the whole account in terms easily commensurable. What man loses by the social contract is his natural liberty and an unlimited right to everything he tries to get and succeeds in getting; what he gains is civil liberty and the proprietorship of all he possesses. If we are to avoid mistake in weighing one against the other, we must clearly distinguish natural liberty, which is bounded only by the strength of the individual, from civil liberty, which is limited by the general will; and possession, which is merely the effect of force or the right of the first occupier, from property, which can be founded only on a positive title.

We might, over and above all this, add, to what man acquires in the civil state, moral liberty, which alone makes him truly master of himself; for the mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescribe to ourselves is liberty. . . .

Why did I quote this? Well, I think it has already been mentioned. But we only give up OUR liberties for that of OUR protection. What if the people we are giving our rights up too, does not provide us adaquet protection? Should we not steal to attain what is rightfully ours, should there, as it has been mentioned, not be "checks and balances" in order to reinstate a just leadership? Could this underground, of hackers and 'malicious theifing credit card stealers' not be this aforementioned 'check and balance'?

If that is so..perhaps we NEED people in the shadow so that the people at the top can't quite see who they are pissing off. You know, make them think twice?

[bad_brain]

I just wanted to add that I am not too concerned about the government trying to breach my privacy, simply because they are simply too stupid to be a real thread...I mean, come on, the german government is sending trojans as email attachments to "suspects" (the highest court made it legal a few weeks ago), that's just good for a laugh for me. what I am concerned about are those big faceless corporations that have more powers than the government because the real experts rather go into free enterprise than working for a government because there is much more money to make.

some days ago I've seen a report on TV about "where is our data?"...it was about the "t-com" (biggest ISP and phone provider in germany) and "Payback" (you know, they give you a card and you get points when shopping with this card).
both spokesmen said "the data is absolutely safe", but at the same time they don't wanted to tell WHERE is it stored and WHO has access to it. well, to make a long story short: the reporter found out both send their data to Thailand where it is processed (outsourcing is the key)...the data is transmitted in clear text through the internet. and to make it even worse the reporter was able to buy a CD full of customer data in Thailand...the data included CC info, addresses, shopping behavior and even handwritten customer requests.

and you can be sure every company on the internet that has made it to a certain volume of sales will take ANY opportunity to get ANY data about you...to create profiles and to sell it. google might be a textbook example.
such big companies are always kinda involved in the government because they have a lot of power (simply imagine google would say "fuck you, we're moving our business to korea", it would be a gigantic tax loss for the USA)....so now imagine what happens if the databases where info is stored about you get networked: buy a pack of cigarettes, use the "Payback" card when buying it and your health insurance fees rise because of your unhealthy lifestyle....just as example.

in the TV report a data protection activist made a statement that is so true: "20 years ago everybody feared "big brother", now we have loads of "little sisters" instead".

[isapiens]

"the resistance is useless. it is useless to resist"

Maybe one day i will be in charge of those corporations. Thats the only way i can feel safe. Some fight the evil, i will just become it. Dont judge me lol.