Debate: 9/11 should not have any sympathy

IceDane · Post by **IceDane** » 11 Sep 2009, 19:07

About 16000 children die from hunger every day. 3000 americans died that day and the whole fucking world weeps for ages.

Your country wages wars for billions of dollars every year. A tank's worth of money could feed a huge region of a huge country for a while.

I have no sympathy whatsoever.

Post by **bad_brain** » 11 Sep 2009, 19:22

I know what you mean IceDane...BUT: millions of dollars are spent to support 3rd world countries every day, and for what are they using it? to buy weapons. in 3rd world countries more people die by the hand of their own people than by hunger. nothing to eat but every 2nd person there has an automatic assault rifle...so my sympathy is also limited in that direction.

Post by **DNR** » 12 Sep 2009, 08:55

IceDane - "well Lets all move to your country then!"

I didn't pay my taxes expecting to buy the next bomb for my government - I paid taxes to support my local infrastructure.

Its sad, that you missed the point that the 3,000 people that died were also innocent, like the starving children - they were pawns and wrongfully killed. One death is enough, but who can help not being numbed by 16000 deaths everyday. If you don't care about 3000 deaths, I don't think you have done anything for 16000 daily deaths either.

Before you rebuke how many lives we have saved, ask yourself that question first.

For a memorial for dead people this was not the place to voice your anti-american sentiments.

Topic has been split from ph0's thread in Memorial of 9/11 victims and rescuers - DNR

Post by **lilrofl** » 12 Sep 2009, 11:14

My sister was in NYC on 9/11... it was a mess. It's easy to sit back on a throne of impunity and throw opinions around with no fear of reprisal, but your logic is a bit misguided I believe.

I won't sit and reiterate the points made by BB and DNR, but I will take a moment to say your lack of sympathy while potentially valid is unappreciated.

Now I don't sit in my room every year and mope about pretending that life doesn't progress, but everyone grieves in different ways, so let them grieve. If you don't agree, then don't...

IceDane · Post by **IceDane** » 12 Sep 2009, 15:34

I would like to start by apologizing for my brash way of putting things. Truth be told I was actually a tiny bit drunk - well, the party sucked which made me not drink as much as I had liked to, but it also ruined my evening that the aforementioned party sucked - I was a tiny bit annoyed in general.

However, my opinion is more or less the same. I am fully aware of the fact that most of the people who died were completely innocent people.

However, the amount of grief and media cover that went into mourning the deaths of people who had, in general, lived some what full lives, full of opportunities and whatnot, when there are 16000 children dying every day in the 3rd world countries that have never even used an electrical device - it's just hypocritical. Hypocrisy is a big part of the way we act, I believe, but this hypocrisy is taking it to the extremes.

This is basically the reason why I feel this way. I cannot be sympathetic with a nation that condones such hypocrisy, and I will certainly not support its annual day of extreme hypocrisy.

Post by **DNR** » 12 Sep 2009, 17:39

I guess let me be the first to accept your apology. It says something about a person that is willing to offer an apology.

Well the hypocrisy is larger than you think - you share the same benefits of modernization - the ability to post in a forum on the WWW. You don't hunt for your food or dig wells for your own water. You have access to a life those poor people will never have - but don't squander it because its wrong.
"Denmark is a founding member of NATO", means you guys enjoy the benefits of oil capitalism as any of those other euro countries. Don't worry - we all feel the guilt.

I have always tried to do goodwill by acting polite when I was in other countries. First impressions count anywhere. When my parents used to make frequent trips to Jamaica, we would bring supplies to the schools there, vitamins, books, pencils, crayons, chalk, and blankets. When we traveled to other countries we did not take the route traveled by tourist - We wanted to see the world as it really is. The best way is to get out and meet the people, listen to their stories. To have the interactive ability to share in others stories is precious, you can't learn this stuff in a book or from class instruction.

IceDane - I suppose I would have the same sense of apathy if the 9/11 happened in your country. The Mumbai attacks will be significant to people of India, I admit I don't share in the same weight as they would. I don't expect the rest of the world ot understand or care about what happens in USA either.

DNR

Post by **bad_brain** » 12 Sep 2009, 17:40

forget the media, forget the governments, they have nothing to do with the people...

I have to admit I used exactly the same argument as you before this site was created...I thought "pfff...americans think they are the world police and are hungry for every new war anyway". but then I met a lot of americans here, and what really made me think was Circuitbomb when he told me that a friend of him came back from Iraq and that they will go to the bar that night. what I thought was "wow, this is nothing anonymous and far away anymore like on TV, his friend could even be dead now".
nobody expects that you wave an american flag, but the last ones to blame are the american people....it's the media, the government and the war profiteers, and this is the same in every country in the world, whatever happens: there are always heartless manipulators that try to exploit it for their own benefit.

what made me a little mad was that you wrote this in a thread where people remembered the victims...that was simply disrespectful...wrong place wrong time...

and it's definitely not the fault of the americans that people die of starvation, it's the fault of every country, including the countries where it happens. it seems to become a fashion to blame the USA and Israel for everything bad that happens on the planet, but that's again nothing but the work of heartless manipulators...

IceDane · Post by **IceDane** » 12 Sep 2009, 18:18

I'll admit, it was somewhat of a touché that you mentioned the hypocrisy of complaining about hypocrisy when I sit in fancy clothes in front of a fancy computer that's connected to the internet. I get it.

I am not blaming USA for the hunger problems or making them responsible, but the fact remains that 9/11 has gotten more media coverage since it happened than the problems of the 3rd world countries have or will ever get.

Post by **ph0bYx** » 12 Sep 2009, 19:09

IceDane wrote: fact remains that 9/11 has gotten more media coverage since it happened than the problems of the 3rd world countries have or will ever get.

I'm not so sure about that. 9/11 did get a lot of media attention but the 3rd world was and still is getting a lot too. The fact is that there are much more charities, fund raisers, dedicated concerts and organizations helping out 3rd world countries than there is for 9/11 or any other disaster.

Nevertheless, if an innocent life is at stake it should get as much media attention as possible. 3rd world countries should get maximum attention until things are fixed there, 9/11 should get maximum attention to not repeat itself in any way.

Off-topic: the reason why I'm sensitive about 9/11 is because of the great number of heroes that died that day, in uniform and without. To me losing a life to save another is the most honourable, noble and human sacrifice that one can make, there's nothing more sacred than a human life, and there's absolutely NOTHING that I respect and admire more than that kind of sacrifice. May those heroes (not only 9/11 but every single one that has ever done this sacrifice) be always remembered.

DrVirus · Post by **DrVirus** » 12 Sep 2009, 21:54

The thing about you guys is, you never actually lived in a third world country. You didn't sleep in the rooms, you didn't shop in the bazars, you didn't go to the hospitals and you didn't you the public transports. No offence but coming in a country thinking "O they are so poor" doesn't help you understand a thing.

I live here. We are fine. We don't need your pity. And we damn sure don't need those 'aids'. Not the people anyway. It's funny about those aids. Recently Pakistan got a $5mil aid right ? From United States of A ? And how much of weapons they brought from USA ? It's like US will get their money back.

Most of you guys have no idea what we go through. But know what ? We are not the ones complaining. I have full sympathy for the 9/11 victims. It made my skin crawl when I saw those buildings collapse live of TV. And I was only a kid back then.

But keep your pitys to yourselves. We will live without it.

P.S. If I can will post some pics about the things I mentioned above in this thread. And once again no offense to anybody the post wasn't meant to do that.

Post by **bad_brain** » 13 Sep 2009, 04:34

true DrVirus, that's what I meant in my last post....I had a wrong picture about americans until I met some, I also had a wrong picture about people from lebanon until I met some. when you believe the media you always get filtered and manipulated "information", that's what I like about suck-o: there are people from everywhere, and when you talk to them it can change your mind a lot.
what I said about people from 3rd world countries (well, actually I had people from africa in mind) is only an impression that is most likely totally wrong...as it was with americans, as it was with lebanese people.
so I have to apologize too.

3XTORTION · Post by **3XTORTION** » 13 Sep 2009, 09:09

No need to apologize b_b as it's a common picture,the first impression that most people have when i tell them i'm from lebanon is that i'm a terrorist holding a gun.Also,the image that you had on the lebanese people isn't wrong at all !In lebanon,there's people who leave school at 10-12 because of financial problems and also there's people who would kill in the name of "God" (

) and make "Holy Wars" and there's other civilized people who have their degrees and they are living like any modern and clivilized society.

I think these type of people are everywhere...even in modern countries.

As for the media,i don't think it's being "filtered" or "manipulated",now i don't really know about the german media but if you watch "EuroNews" you can really see poverty,misery and hezbollah news are always in the "No Comment" section as for Taliban and Al Quaida and others.
And in the "Art or Fashion News" you always see Beirut fashion events and the downtown full of cool and modern people and if you take a closer look at the buildings and the places without looking at the banner at the bottom...it's almost impossible to know that it's the same country that was showed 5 minutes ago.

Post by **lilrofl** » 13 Sep 2009, 10:15

I think you're right in some regard, 9/11 happened so long ago I do think it's time for people to move on and let it go.

I don't think that people in America, as a whole, even have any grief left, but you'd think because of media coverage that the whole country shuts down and throws a pity party annually on the anniversary.

I'm certainly not saying that people don't have the right to express themselves, but on topics like these it's better to be anti-inflammatory, you never know who it's gonna hit like a ton of bricks.

As for third world country aid... meh, not like I have a choice where my government sends money, and international policy is well outside the scope of my understanding.

I appreciate the apology though, and just so you don't think I feel above approach, my reaction when I watched the Twin Towers fall was that someone, somewhere was yelling JANGAAAAAAA!!!

Post by **bad_brain** » 13 Sep 2009, 11:50

3X, sure, there are news agencies that really tell the unfiltered truth, but those are hard to find and they usually have a hard time because the people that work there are often labeled as traitors, liars, etc.
the mass media that is watched by "the average people" is almost never neutral....at least from what I have seen in germany.
one of the few that dare to swim against the mainstream is a blog named pi-new.net here (biggest political blog in germany), but they have to work in a conspirative way by using offshore hosting, else the owners would go to jail in no time.....just for telling what many people already know but what also is not political correct.

n3rd · Post by **n3rd** » 13 Sep 2009, 13:26

the solution is imple but fucking harsh!

Let them die.

Now I know people will see me as evil saying this.

But the only solution is to kill of the cancers that stop us from proceeding to a more peacefull society.

once the cancers are destroyed. we can replace it with cells that actually benefit humanity.