Dragged from "general computing thread"

[LaBlueGirl]

Have you seen matrix? Thomas Anderson is a professional coder at his work and *at his home* he's a hacker known as Neo. He's living two lives.

That was...a movie.

While I see the point you are trying to make, you cannot say with such certainty 'hackers at their home code differently'.
They may code for different reasons, but there is no way to back up such a specious claim as hackers code differently at their home.
The relevance of my statement to what you have stated previously was re: the use of an IDE, which was where this whole 'thing' originated

It has nothing to do with any classification, a professional can be(and mostly is) a hacker also.
and then you say

Yes it does, according to you.
FrankB said he used an IDE, you followed up with *your* classification of hackers, where real hackers code differently in their homes.

Real programmers or hackers aren't determined by whether they code 'the long way' or the 'short way'.

Isnt it forced classification? You think i m trying to distinguish them?

I never backpedalled, i was just trying to prove this point from the beginning, i wanted to make it clear that i m not pointing fingers at anyone like you said

No, and yes.
I was not classifying who is and is not a hacker by the way they code 'on the job' and at their homes.
I merely said a 'real hacker' is NOT determined in how the code at those two afore-mentioned locations.
You said they code differently, not I, love.
By you insinuating how hackers code, you are classifying what 'real hackers' do and do not do.

And as far as backpedaling goes, I'll have to edit this post to directly quote the succession of posts from you.
(I'm not going to save this to Kate, go back and copy/paste what I'm looking for in Kate, then do this all over again.)
Better yet, I'll post it as another reply!

Frank said he used an IDE.
You say 'real' hackers code differently.
Therefore, you are not so subtly inferring the person in question is not a real hacker.
You were the one who ascribed a hat preference (or even if they deem it necessary to wear a hat in the first place) by whether or not a person uses an IDE.

How can i say anything about frank being a hacker or not without knowing anything? Thats what i said you made it look like as if it was intended at Frank. And Frank, i thought you took it personally since then, i dunno i may be wrong.

That's called having an opinion
You never said Frank was a hacker or he wasn't. The implication was there, which I will post after this reply.
Maybe it was bad timing or an ill choice of words.
Dunno, I'm not you.

Regarding things like whitehats or blackhats, there's no point arguing on that, its personal belief, you think its something created by media and i personally believe its cool to call them blackhats or whitehats(if not based on their ethics)

Then go 'head on with yo' bad self.

But I know more than a few individuals who have made it their life's work in programming, security detection and educating the masses in the field of computers.
If you were to call any of them by a colored hat, they would laugh in your general direction.

Methinks a hat denomination is a product of media coverage and a younger generation trying to put a cool-sounding label on themselves.

So you may live in a world where hacker is someone who thinks out of the box to do things which are not supposed to be done. A broad, generic ambiguous term.

I live in a world where black hats and whitehats exist, hacker is a *only* a computer geek, in my world hacking is all about computers. One person can be a professional programmer in office(during day) and hacker at home(at midnight).

You... don't live on Earth????

If I hacked a cellphone, I don't have to be a computer geek.

More examples provided upon request.

Who's wrong???
Lets not impose our thoughts to each other

Depends on your definition of wrong.
Depends on if you are trying to prove me wrong, or clarify a point with mature, intellectual statements.

Guess what???
YOU're wrong!!
You get a big, fat, black "F" on your report card!!

lol, see how silly it sounds???

LBG

And if the quotes are wrong, I don't care anymore.

[LaBlueGirl]

And as far as backpedaling goes, I'll have to edit this post to directly quote the succession of posts from you.
(I'm not going to save this to Kate, go back and copy/paste what I'm looking for in Kate, then do this all over again.)
Better yet, I'll post it as another reply!

Here:

(notice the timestamps)

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:50 am    Post subject:

@FrankB and RNA, IDE and other library stuff comes in when we're working for a software company or working with a team to develop a software or something, this dude is talking about learning programming, he should better start with the basics, and professionals and hackers(at their home) code differently
_________________
"Stay foolish, Stay hungry"-Steve Jobs




Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject:

I see things are turning java specific

FrankB wrote:
LBG: if you read my post twice, i advise the OP to do both, from scratch & IDE. Anyway, when one learns a language, he *always* write things from scratch, just to get the basics of program flow and its own exceptions and error handling.

Writing from scratch or with an IDE has nothing to do with personal choice and fashion, it is all about efficieny and practical day to day maintenance.

LaBlueGirl wrote:
Real programmers or hackers aren't determined by whether they code 'the long way' or the 'short way'.
LBG

That's true, very true.
IDE or from scratch, headers and libraries are always routine job, you cannot make the sample above more simple, you just can't, hacker or no hacker, Java is still Java.


Why do people alsways misinterpret me? I never meant you are a hacker or a pro programmer by the way you code.



Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:29 am    Post subject:

Oh lol, i forgot to add something, "real l33t smartass" hackers use linux and n00b lame dumb people use windows

LaBlueGirl wrote:
Frank said he used an IDE.
You say 'real' hackers code differently.
Therefore, you are not so subtly inferring the person in question is not a real hacker.
You were the one who ascribed a hat preference (or even if they deem it necessary to wear a hat in the first place) by whether or not a person uses an IDE.

Ok since you seem to understand my posts exceptionally well,tell me who i am ok?? ready???.....here we go

I use IDE for my work, like i mostly use php,javascript, C++,C etc generally i do this coding on windows

Voila
Now, I have 2 hours left before I do the mom thing.
I am going to play my game and enjoy some 'downtime'

[pseudo_opcode]

Have you seen matrix? Thomas Anderson is a professional coder at his work and *at his home* he's a hacker known as Neo. He's living two lives.

That was...a movie.

While I see the point you are trying to make, you cannot say with such certainty 'hackers at their home code differently'.
They may code for different reasons, but there is no way to back up such a specious claim as hackers code differently at their home.
The relevance of my statement to what you have stated previously was re: the use of an IDE, which was where this whole 'thing' originated

How can you say with so much certainty that 'hackers at their home DO NOT code differently'

It has nothing to do with any classification, a professional can be(and mostly is) a hacker also.
and then you say

Yes it does, according to you.
FrankB said he used an IDE, you followed up with *your* classification of hackers, where real hackers code differently in their homes.

Real programmers or hackers aren't determined by whether they code 'the long way' or the 'short way'.

Isnt it forced classification? You think i m trying to distinguish them?

I never backpedalled, i was just trying to prove this point from the beginning, i wanted to make it clear that i m not pointing fingers at anyone like you said

No, and yes.
I was not classifying who is and is not a hacker by the way they code 'on the job' and at their homes.
I merely said a 'real hacker' is NOT determined in how the code at those two afore-mentioned locations.
You said they code differently, not I, love.
By you insinuating how hackers code, you are classifying what 'real hackers' do and do not do.

And as far as backpedaling goes, I'll have to edit this post to directly quote the succession of posts from you.
(I'm not going to save this to Kate, go back and copy/paste what I'm looking for in Kate, then do this all over again.)
Better yet, I'll post it as another reply!

Frank said he used an IDE.
You say 'real' hackers code differently.
Therefore, you are not so subtly inferring the person in question is not a real hacker.
You were the one who ascribed a hat preference (or even if they deem it necessary to wear a hat in the first place) by whether or not a person uses an IDE.

How can i say anything about frank being a hacker or not without knowing anything? Thats what i said you made it look like as if it was intended at Frank. And Frank, i thought you took it personally since then, i dunno i may be wrong.

That's called having an opinion
You never said Frank was a hacker or he wasn't. The implication was there, which I will post after this reply.
Maybe it was bad timing or an ill choice of words.
Dunno, I'm not you.

Talk of implications, if i sit down and figure out implications in your posts i can associate them to a million things in this world, do not assume anything before its explicitly said, And try not to post stuff which is supposed to have double meaning, it will do no good except for elongated pointless discussions and the database will eat up the space on b_b's server.

Regarding things like whitehats or blackhats, there's no point arguing on that, its personal belief, you think its something created by media and i personally believe its cool to call them blackhats or whitehats(if not based on their ethics)

Then go 'head on with yo' bad self.

But I know more than a few individuals who have made it their life's work in programming, security detection and educating the masses in the field of computers.
If you were to call any of them by a colored hat, they would laugh in your general direction.

How many big names(hackers, security experts, security architects) do you want me to list along with the names of books they have authored, who themselves believe in this hat system?And i bet they wont laugh.

Methinks a hat denomination is a product of media coverage and a younger generation trying to put a cool-sounding label on themselves.

Thats what you think, the world doesnt think like you,and definitely not me...

So you may live in a world where hacker is someone who thinks out of the box to do things which are not supposed to be done. A broad, generic ambiguous term.

I live in a world where black hats and whitehats exist, hacker is a *only* a computer geek, in my world hacking is all about computers. One person can be a professional programmer in office(during day) and hacker at home(at midnight).

You... don't live on Earth????

If I hacked a cellphone, I don't have to be a computer geek.

More examples provided upon request.

Regarding the world thing... did you understand what i wanted to say? i m sure you did but still you gave another silly remark just for the sake of arguing.

Who's wrong???
Lets not impose our thoughts to each other

Depends on your definition of wrong.
Depends on if you are trying to prove me wrong, or clarify a point with mature, intellectual statements.

I already said i m not trying to prove anything if you remember(dont feel like quoting)
and the answer to "who's wrong" is "no one".

[LaBlueGirl]

How can you say with so much certainty that 'hackers at their home DO NOT code differently'

Because I live with one, ergo your assumption hackers code differently at home is null.

It has nothing to do with any classification, a professional can be(and mostly is) a hacker also.
and then you say

Yes it does, according to you.
FrankB said he used an IDE, you followed up with *your* classification of hackers, where real hackers code differently in their homes.

Real programmers or hackers aren't determined by whether they code 'the long way' or the 'short way'.

Isnt it forced classification? You think i m trying to distinguish them?

I never backpedalled, i was just trying to prove this point from the beginning, i wanted to make it clear that i m not pointing fingers at anyone like you said

No, and yes.
I was not classifying who is and is not a hacker by the way they code 'on the job' and at their homes.
I merely said a 'real hacker' is NOT determined in how the code at those two afore-mentioned locations.
You said they code differently, not I, love.
By you insinuating how hackers code, you are classifying what 'real hackers' do and do not do.

And as far as backpedaling goes, I'll have to edit this post to directly quote the succession of posts from you.
(I'm not going to save this to Kate, go back and copy/paste what I'm looking for in Kate, then do this all over again.)
Better yet, I'll post it as another reply!

Frank said he used an IDE.
You say 'real' hackers code differently.
Therefore, you are not so subtly inferring the person in question is not a real hacker.
You were the one who ascribed a hat preference (or even if they deem it necessary to wear a hat in the first place) by whether or not a person uses an IDE.

How can i say anything about frank being a hacker or not without knowing anything? Thats what i said you made it look like as if it was intended at Frank. And Frank, i thought you took it personally since then, i dunno i may be wrong.

That's called having an opinion
You never said Frank was a hacker or he wasn't. The implication was there, which I will post after this reply.
Maybe it was bad timing or an ill choice of words.
Dunno, I'm not you.

Talk of implications, if i sit down and figure out implications in your posts i can associate them to a million things in this world, do not assume anything before its explicitly said, And try not to post stuff which is supposed to have double meaning, it will do no good except for elongated pointless discussions and the database will eat up the space on b_b's server.

Regarding things like whitehats or blackhats, there's no point arguing on that, its personal belief, you think its something created by media and i personally believe its cool to call them blackhats or whitehats(if not based on their ethics)

Then go 'head on with yo' bad self.

But I know more than a few individuals who have made it their life's work in programming, security detection and educating the masses in the field of computers.
If you were to call any of them by a colored hat, they would laugh in your general direction.

How many big names(hackers, security experts, security architects) do you want me to list along with the names of books they have authored, who themselves believe in this hat system?And i bet they wont laugh.[/quote]

How many have you met and dialogued with, personally?

And even then, it is simpler to use a categorization.
In another thread, I did the same.
Although with the warning I don't like labels.

Methinks a hat denomination is a product of media coverage and a younger generation trying to put a cool-sounding label on themselves.

Thats what you think, the world doesnt think like you,and definitely not me...

So you may live in a world where hacker is someone who thinks out of the box to do things which are not supposed to be done. A broad, generic ambiguous term.

I live in a world where black hats and whitehats exist, hacker is a *only* a computer geek, in my world hacking is all about computers. One person can be a professional programmer in office(during day) and hacker at home(at midnight).

You... don't live on Earth????

If I hacked a cellphone, I don't have to be a computer geek.

More examples provided upon request.

Regarding the world thing... did you understand what i wanted to say? i m sure you did but still you gave another silly remark just for the sake of arguing.

(begin silly remark)
I am a pretty pretty princess!
Who uses up bandwidth!!
Who cannot concede defeat even in the face of my own words used against me!!!
(end silly remark)

Who's wrong???
Lets not impose our thoughts to each other

Depends on your definition of wrong.
Depends on if you are trying to prove me wrong, or clarify a point with mature, intellectual statements.

I already said i m not trying to prove anything if you remember(dont feel like quoting)
and the answer to "who's wrong" is "no one".[/quote]

I'm not sure.
I said it depends on your definition of wrong and the intent of this dialogue.

And if you are not trying to prove anything, then why are you still responding?

[LaBlueGirl]

Talk of implications, if i sit down and figure out implications in your posts i can associate them to a million things in this world, do not assume anything before its explicitly said, And try not to post stuff which is supposed to have double meaning, it will do no good except for elongated pointless discussions and the database will eat up the space on b_b's server.

Couldn't find this one at reply-time, so here we go:

If you would like some assistance in figuring out the implications inherent in my posts, feel free to ask.
It may cut down on the time you are behind your computer.

If I post something which has a double meaning, chances are what you have previously stated is unclear or untrue.

But if you have a hard time understanding what I write, then again, feel free to ask!

If you are sooo worried about b_b's server, then just quit replying!!

[pseudo_opcode]

Because I live with one, ergo your assumption hackers code differently at home is null.

Did somebody say this?

Most people true to their form (whatever said form may be), don't go around 'bragging' about it.
Real pagans don't go around telling the world 'Hey, I'm pagan look at me!'

So do people go about?? 'Hey i live with a pagan, look at me?'
did someone mention about Flaming gays also?? ew...

If you live with one, i live with many, not to forget i m also into hacking...

How many have you met and dialogued with, personally?

I m not sitting at my computer all the time,i too have a life outside,i am a computer science honors student, i m topper in my univ, i talk to professors, teachers,lecturers, i go to conferences, i represent my college in various computer events, i do presentations, i do projects, i go to seminars, and i think you know how interesting people we meet there.

And if you are not trying to prove anything, then why are you still responding?

I like discusssion.

If you are sooo worried about b_b's server, then just quit replying!!

I quit

[LaBlueGirl]

Because I live with one, ergo your assumption hackers code differently at home is null.

Did somebody say this?

Most people true to their form (whatever said form may be), don't go around 'bragging' about it.
Real pagans don't go around telling the world 'Hey, I'm pagan look at me!'

So do people go about?? 'Hey i live with a pagan, look at me?'
did someone mention about Flaming gays also?? ew...

If you live with one, i live with many, not to forget i m also into hacking...

How many have you met and dialogued with, personally?

I m not sitting at my computer all the time,i too have a life outside,i am a computer science honors student, i m topper in my univ, i talk to professors, teachers,lecturers, i go to conferences, i represent my college in various computer events, i do presentations, i do projects, i go to seminars, and i think you know how interesting people we meet there.

And if you are not trying to prove anything, then why are you still responding?

I like discusssion.

If you are sooo worried about b_b's server, then just quit replying!!

I quit

LMFAO

[RNA]

Im going to pass the flames and state my opinion on the matter.

Now as for background to why I hate IDEs, Ive taken a few classes in my highschool, and Im taking another right now. I find that 90% of the class cannot even write a hello world program without Visual Studio's auto completeing code. It really scares me when Im supposed to work with them on projects and they do not know the code.


As far as the argument about the java code earlier, I looked through it and understood it well enough.

Its my opinion that the knowledge of the act is more important than actually finish, maybe its just that I get some sick twisted gratification off writing without anything helping me. Pitting my mind v. my mind(and sometimes windows >.>).

I dont have so much an issue with people using IDE's as using them while not understanding the underlying code, bad things can happen if you understand the code on which you build your program off
being unable to write a Java hello world(and I hate java btw) without something doing it for you is somewhat scary....

Code: Select all

import Java.io.*;
public class HelloWorld
{
    public static void main(String[] Args)
  {
    System.out.println("Hello World!");
  } 
}

Something to that sort.

[LaBlueGirl]

Its my opinion that the knowledge of the act is more important than actually finish, maybe its just that I get some sick twisted gratification off writing without anything helping me. Pitting my mind v. my mind(and sometimes windows >.>).

I dont have so much an issue with people using IDE's as using them while not understanding the underlying code, bad things can happen if you understand the code on which you build your program off
being unable to write a Java hello world(and I hate java btw) without something doing it for you is somewhat scary....

I've only watched Frank code on BASH in any of the C's or Perl or whatever the f*ck else he codes on there, and I've watched him code Java with an IDE.

Luckily, he knows WTF he is doing.

If I tried to use a Java IDE with only a minimal understanding of Java,
BSOD-ilarity would ensue:)
(For Windows, otherwise on Linux it would freeze up, and no amount of waiting could prevent a cold reboot)....

If you don't have a good background in what you are doing, then IDE's aren't right for you.

LBG

PS: Merde!!! This quoting shite kills me!!
Why can't we have > like "normal" people ~