Is MAC better than pc?

[DNR]

Rebooting between switching OS? (boot camp)
Lag in VMware? (resource intensive)
PC products may not work well? (yea, its supposed to be on a PC!)


DNR

[Mohseen]

I’ve never had a problem in Bootcamp, VmWARE is bit on the not so great side, but thats hardly a reason to not like a MAC.
Qemulator is a freeware app that allows the running of MS programs natively on a MAC.
Also your just splitting hairs here, give me real solid reason as to why you don’t like MAC’s.

[maboroshi]

I personally don't see how this is a relevant question "Is MAC better than pc?" because imo a computer is just a tool. If it does what it's suppose to do then it has served its purpose.

PC or Mac - Who cares, as Hackers we should be versed in as many tools as possible and not comparing which one is better cause in reality they all serve a purpose. As hackers they bend to OUR will, not the other way around.

*cheers

Maboroshi

[crashacid]

I’ve never had a problem in Bootcamp, VmWARE is bit on the not so great side, but thats hardly a reason to not like a MAC.
Qemulator is a freeware app that allows the running of MS programs natively on a MAC.
Also your just splitting hairs here, give me real solid reason as to why you don’t like MAC’s.

its not like he was against you, he just cleared up doubts your brought up in last post .

[DNR]

I’ve never had a problem in Bootcamp, VmWARE is bit on the not so great side, but thats hardly a reason to not like a MAC.
Qemulator is a freeware app that allows the running of MS programs natively on a MAC.
Also your just splitting hairs here, give me real solid reason as to why you don’t like MAC’s.

Mabo is right - its a tool, we might as well debate Colt pistols with Smith and Wesson Pistols. For Mac elitist to be so proud they never touched a PC, they forget 89% of the world is using PC, windows or not. You make the choice of the best tool you need for work and play - its not the 'ultimate machine'.


DNR

[Mohseen]

I never claimed it was the ultimate machine, it's just better then MS simple.
Maboroshi is correct in principle but not in practice (I think).
If there are two tools that do the same thing but one easier to use and feels better isn't it better then the other tool? Isn't a chainsaw better then an axe? Or a car to a cycle? Or a electric cooker to a stove? Or a gun to a bow&arrow? They both bend to our wills just one does the bending better then the other is all I'm saying.
And I have been using MS for a long time (still do) and also I use MAC so as a result in my personal opinion it is much better.

[lilrofl]

since usefulness of the tool is an opinion, I don't think it matters what tool you use.

In my opinion Apple is a company that takes advantage of it's consumers, and veils it's misdeeds in 'pretty' products.

The fact is, that people who love mac, love it... not always as aggressivly as you but that's not really my point

I have my issues with mac, but they mainly stem from my mother, sister and two friends owning macs. I've worked with macs for years now, from DRM servers being shut down invalidating music, to products not living up to advertisement, and then being unsupported, just months after release, with the unveiling of the same, but newer, working model. You don't even have root access to your Iphone... that YOU OWN!

From their cute commercials selling 'enlightened' products to the masses, backing overpriced computers with their horrible costumer service Mac needs an adjustment.

Perhaps, their cute white BSD boxes are fantastic, but without a switch of focus to their costomers I'll never find out. I see them clustered around eachother in the coffee shops and think 'pretentious schmucks' I liken them to the old beatnik movement of the 60's, or the renewed vigor of the vegan movement, aggressively attacking anyone who dares to enjoy a gluten rich meal dripping with the rarest pastrami.

I like windows, and with the release of windows 7 a lot of other people do to. It's no mystery why the 'Ima MAC/ImaPC' commercials went away, they are just not applicable anymore.

I realise that I am ranting at this point and should stop, however I think it's important to note that no product is perfect, MS, Mac, or Linux... just varying degrees of compromise. I have windows 7 on my desktop so that I can play the latest and greatest games available, and I have linux on my netbook for when I have to get work done. I don't have a mac, and I own no mac products... this will not change until the corperation stops jacking their costumers around, I don't care if their new Ipowerbookproduopad comes with a free BJ, it's just not worth the hassle.

[Artificial Interceptor]

Well Lilrofl Thank you for enlighting me with your opinion, and i totally agree with you,

But to return to subject of the thread, i think it is a matter of taste. Using a Mac instead of a windoze machine, well, for most work you need Windoze and mac can't follow through on that path, because of the unique file system. Mac defeats Windoze totally in graphic solutions like in producing graphic movies and basicly movie editing, Windoze however defeats mac in everything else that you wanna do.

[Mohseen]

Llirofl, thank you for your post, it was one the most well written and enlightening posts concerning this thread I have read.

All so thank you for pointing out many of the Apples flaws (all of which I agree with), however I would like to point out that Apple having flaws means little to nothing to the actual MAC laptop itself. If a chainsaw (MAC) company make a good chainsaw but have crappy customer service, that has no real bearing on the actual chainsaw and is no reason to say that an axe (MS) is better.

Also to all of those who contributed opinions about Linux I thank you, I wish to make my position concerning Linux’s clear, I consider Linux second best to MAC’s for one reason only, there not as user friendly. For those of us who know what GUI means and what an IP address is it works great, but I cant imagine my mother using a Linux.

Also many flaws have been pointed out on this topic concerning MAC’s, all or most of which are true, however there has been a complete and utter lack of conclusive evidence as to why MS is better then MAC.

Point out any flaw you want from MAC or even Apple, MS has a hundred more flaws, much more less straight forward services, a unashamed copy-cat attempt to mimic MAC’s OS X, and many more flaws I can point out and I will still be here for the next 100 years.

As for those who claim that MAC’s have been rather not-so capable of runing office programs and spread sheets, pie charts etc. I want to point out that MAC’s have been running MS OFFICE for years.

For those who say that they have glitches with BootCamp, might I remind you that MS does not even have the capability of running any other OS, while a MAC runs all three, whats a few glitches compared the ability to run all three major OS’s I ask you?.

So despite the compelling though non conclusive evidence which just point out MAC’s flaws but fail to explain how MS is better in the same flawed categories, I must assume that the complainer simply does not like certain aspects of a MAC, which I understand and sympathize with but please point out any instance in which MS takes advantage or is better in the flawed MAC instances.

Also when it coms to the sheer delight of using an OS the MAC trumps all, just the icons, the way the loading bar looks, the way the buttons feel, the minimalist approach, the visual artistry of a MAC is something MS is no where near touching.

I would like to also point out that Apple has never had a failed OS, which is more then we can say for MS, ( remember the V word?).

Finally the three basic reasons a MS is used are:

1) ignorance/fear people simply don't know about how to run a Linux and don't even know the existence of a MAC.

2) lack of money, lets admit it MACS are simply way to expensive for common sense.

3) MS is cheap, essentialy just an OS, it runs on the cheapest of laptops.

So in my mind if you know what you want form your laptop and understand how laptops and OS’s work, get a Linux as it is a truly amazing feat of community effort and passion.

If you have money and want a simple good looking OS that starts peeling the layers showing how robust it is then get a MAC.

of your poor and don't know much about comps, then learn and go get a Linux!.

So thats... um... that all I have to say, have a good day. wont you?

[lilrofl]

OK, I've got one more reply... but just one more so bear with I'll use direct quotes from you because I'm in a hurry, I mean no disrespect.

...a unashamed copy-cat attempt to mimic MAC’s OS X

Mac stole the BSD kernel directly to make their operating system... it doesn't change what it is now, nor what it will be in the future. If companies didn't do this, then nothing would ever evolve to its greatest potential.

MS does not even have the capability of running any other OS, while a MAC runs all three, whats a few glitches compared the ability to run all three major OS’s I ask you?.

This simply is not true, I built a PC for my wife, who must use a mac video editing program for school, that runs Mac OS, Windows 7 and Mandriva. I'll not go into her favorite and why. I will say though that making the computer was made easier when MAC switched to x86 architecture for their chip sets... the architecture that PCs have been using since the beginning.

please point out any instance in which MS takes advantage or is better

any time you want absolute control over your computer, and it is denied by Mac, you are better off with another OS. I'll keep my examples relevant to the average user, and I'll limit myself to 10 cause I could really fill up some space with Macs issues. I am aware that some of these issues have been fixed, but they where pivotal in my decision to never own a mac so I feel they are valid, most are still accurate in Tiger.

1. There's no way to delete an SMTP submission server from the list of those known to the mail client, so it keeps trying to use submission servers that are no longer valid.

2. It incorporates everything itunes plays into your library, even if it's just some random audio clip from a web page that you'll never want to hear again, and insist on labeling the songs in some random letter format...

3. Various misleading messages from mail client complaining that the SMTP submission server doesn't support a protocol feature (like SSL) when a network is down.

4. The junk mail recognition is useless, it will delete perfectly valid mail even after months of training it.

5. The 802.11 card has such poor antenna placement that it often fails to work in areas where other laptops work fine. Using a PMCIA or USB card to work around this would be ok... if Mac supported any reasonable amount of peripheral hardware.

6. Bonjour... This is just a mess of problems that you can't turn off. One of the many annoying things about Bonjour is that it broadcast your computer's name over the local network, presumably as an invitation to attackers, which is fine if it did something useful, instead of making a mess of multicast DNS. This software is garbage.

7. Safari tries to deal with ftp URLs by mounting an FTP file system and popping up a finder window for the mounted file system. This is less functional than using the browser, and the system can freeze if the FTP server doesn't respond promptly... it's sort of like DoSing yourself

8. The first thing the machine does after you get it (or after you upgrade the OS) is to try to get you to type in your personal information, so that it can leak this information to Apple. It doesn't give you an obvious way to decline this.

9. Every time you update the operating system it turns automatic Software Update ON, even though you turned it off, and there's no way to tell whether a Software Update will break something. For instance, Software Update wiped out a version of sshd that supported IPv6. There was no way to know whether it would do that because Software Update doesn't supply enough details about which files it is updating, and why that file is being updated.

10. Support? Apple's idea of support is to put up a web page full of links that tell you how great their products are. If you go to the trouble to fill out a form telling them what problems you're having, they tell you after you've filled out that form that they won't bother responding to you personally and that your efforts to explain a technical problem to them were wasted. Apparently they're not interested in hearing about technical problems. *this one I stole directly form a friend of mine, but he's so elegent with words I couldn't help it*

I would like to also point out that Apple has never had a failed OS, which is more then we can say for MS, ( remember the V word?).

Hmm... you probably missed most of them then. Keep in mind, I was around when the LISA was announced.

Finally the three basic reasons a MS is used are:
1) ignorance/fear people simply don't know about how to run a Linux and don't even know the existence of a MAC.
2) lack of money, lets admit it MACS are simply way to expensive for common sense.
3) MS is cheap, essentialy just an OS, it runs on the cheapest of laptops.

Or maybe it's hardware support... and the fact that MS market targets corporations while MAC targets the 'individual' and the 'unique' If there was a Mac in every household, there would still be more MS systems in the world because of this. In short, unless you want to go work for mac, you better know how to use a PC functionally.

I admire your fortitude though, and that you love mac so much is fine... likewise it's fine that I think it's garbage and will stick with Linux, which incidentally you can make look, act and feel like a mac/pc... or something new and different just for you.

Cheers

[Mohseen]

Great piece lilrofl, and as usual I’m back to make my counterpoint (you do realize we can continue doing this for like the next 250 years right?).

First of all, as usual the flaws in the mac system apply to mostly your personal dissatisfaction with certain aspects of the OS X (some or most of which have been fixed or completely taken out), which is understandable and practical as well since most of my dissatisfaction comes from certain aspects of MS as well.

However if we choose the path of picking certain aspects of an OS and compare them to each other to pick which is the better one is I’m afraid it is simply the start to a never ending discussion.

If we choose this path we might as well start a discussion as to which color is better, White or Black? And you can probably surmise we’ll have another very long discussion as to the individual merits or flaws of each color.

So I prefer to look at the two OS’s as a whole, as much fun a as it is to tinker and explain the different parts of a car in the end it is rated good or bad as a whole vehicle, as the saying goes, “it more then the sum of its parts”.

And a a whole, no can honestly say that MS is better then a mac, of course there are certain advantages to MS over mac, such as the G Wiz electric car has fuel and economical advantages over a Ferrari, but does that mean a G Wiz is better then a Ferrari? No way in hell!

If there are flaws in a OS (and they always are no matter what OS) that apply you to directly, then that OS is not for you regardless of which one it is.

That however does not rule out the OS as bad OS, or as inferior to another OS due to certain personal problems you encounter in it.

If the slow, very unsafe, fuel efficient and ugly G Wiz is the good car for you, then please Don't go for the Ferrari, however your like for the G Wiz does not make the Ferrari a worse car then the G Wiz. The fact still remains The Ferrari is much better then the G Wiz.

Please apply the above simile to mac (Ferrari) and MS (G Wiz).

Fact is, as a whole OS experience mac beats MS hands down anytime, regardless of whether it is being aimed at companies or private homes.

I'll keep my examples relevant to the average user

I think lilrofl your idea of the “average user” is rather distorted, most average users have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

SMPT? Mail clients? 802.11 card? SSL? FTP? Most average users have no clue what any of these mean at all!

The only two instances that a average user might have understood are the following:

The junk mail recognition is useless, it will delete perfectly valid mail even after months of training it.

It incorporates everything itunes plays into your library, even if it's just some random audio clip from a web page that you'll never want to hear again, and insist on labeling the songs in some random letter format...

Thats all an average user would understand in your long and very accurate list of faults on OS X (some of which have been rectified).

I could pick a very compelling list of top ten faults with MS, but as I’ve said this is not about picking faults that apply to use personally (if we do then this post thread will simply never end) rather we need to view the OSs as complete packages.

As such it is undeniable that OSX/MAC is the better system rather MS.

The following simile is here to clear up once and for all my opinions concerning all three major systems (MS, MAC, Linux).

1. MAC: is like a Rolls Royce, the perfect comfort leisure and class ride, and polished badge name.
Requires little to no skill to drive.
Unlike most cars the Rolls Royce is like a butler, it does everything for you really and you don't even notice (James May Top Gear).

2. Linux: is like a Ferrari, highly configurable, very powerful, and lets you do everything for yourself.
Requires considerable skill to drive.

3. MS: is like the G Wiz, ugly, slow, over priced, goes only half the quoted distance before running out of power, no configuration available as compared to Ferrari, overly hyped and completely unsafe.

That I hope gives you an idea of my thoughts concerning the separate OSs out there.

Your right lilrofl, my experience of Apples OSs starts from when they started calling them by the name of big cats (Jaguar, Tiger, Leopard, Snow Leopard, and soon to come Lion), however if one of these has ever been a failure then I’m not aware, however please do inform if they have.

take care and peace.