Tactical Shotgun

[DNR]

In the USA of course there is debate about gun ownership.

First of all, it seems many bad guys can get guns.
Second of all, we have laws - like you wait 14 days before you buy a handgun. The gun shops call the local sheriff to run your name and info before you get a shotgun or rifle.

Now, we also have certain parts of the US that are gun free and open-carry zones. Both of them seem to have the same amount of crime - due to economic and educational differences.

The do keep record of legal gun owners that commit crimes, and its like 2%.

with certain types of shootings - like active shooters, time is very critical.
An active shooter intends to kill until he is killed.
When I worked in places like banks, money handling facilities, schools, and public venues - that was the biggest threat - a domestic or international active shooter.

The best way to stop an active shooter, is to kill them.

Unlike the regular stories of mass murder you hear internationally, the press fails to cover the active shooter situations where nothing happened - because the shooter was neutralized.

The worst part of active shooter situations were the stories of victims that were stalked and shot many times by a nut, and they could do nothing. Police waiting outside til paperwork clears or everyone on the swat team has on matching clothes.

So - of course, if the guy never had access to a gun, he could not kill many people. But if everyone has equal access to guns, then shooters like them get their 'suicide by hero' quicker.

DNR

[ph0bYx]

And how many murders were committed in the gun free zone?
Anyway, I believe that if firearms manufacturing were restricted to the military only and firearms usage to soldiers in combat there would be far less murder cases around. The bad thing is that guns don't have an expiration date so their number can only go up. It would cool if only the normal people that know how to operate a gun would have them. I'm scared of the irresponsible and frankly the crazy people too, it's too easy for them to get a gun.

So, to answer DrV: The only armed people that I would trust are the ones that I know (like DNR for example), and frankly, armed citizen scare the shit out of me more than criminals and the government combined (well they are pretty much the same anyways ).

[lonewolf]

And how many murders were committed in the gun free zone?

If you use Chicago for an example quite a few.

Anyway, I believe that if firearms manufacturing were restricted to the military only and firearms usage to soldiers in combat there would be far less murder cases around.

I have to disagree here people have been finding new and exciting ways to kill others as long as we have been alive. Building something that can fire a projectile is quite easy, 15 min in the hardware store and a few minutes prep time we can launch a bowling ball far enough you can not see where it lands. What I am saying if some one really wants to kill you there are a lot of ways that do not include guns. Secondly the crime rate actually goes down in places that have conceal carry laws. If an attacker knows that you as a law abiding citizen can not arm yourself then you become prey. Now if there is a 50/50 chance you may be armed they have a tendency to go elsewhere where the possibility of getting shot diminishes.

I do agree that some people should not own firearms but then I also see people who should not have a drivers license.

last but not least I can only think of one gun that had an expiration date. I bet it came to DNR's mind immediately as well.

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The 44 automag

[DrVirus]

Lonewolf said it all !! Nothing more can be added I guess. And I do shudder at the thoughts of only military having guns and no one else. I guess it's hard for you first world citizens to imagine what happens when the military does a coup and takes the power for themselves. It happens on every weekend in my neighbor country Anyway we are getting off topic (my fault) The tactical shotgun looks awesome man !! How about a video from the Training range ??

DrV

[ph0bYx]

Of course that people will kill other people whether they have access to guns or not, what I'm saying is that limiting access to lethal weapons would give them less chance to actually kill someone. And of course if someone is determined to kill he will try it with or without guns, I don't know about you but I'd rather be attacked with a knife at close range than a gun at distance.
Also in that 50/50 percent area why would you trust someone that's carrying a gun? How do you know if he's mentally stable, has a bad day, is drunk, is a Steve Urkel clone, an accident waiting to happen or is just plain stupid like the majority of people?

DrV: I don't know how it's in your place but if the military decided to take power in their hands here, I'd run. Seriously, you can have your whole house filled with guns, but if you're not John Rambo don't fight an army

How about a video from the Training range ??

I'd watch that.

[DNR]

maybe video today, I got some new targets lol.

I too worry - the government/military should NOT be the only ones with firearms. This is supposed to be the premise - an armed population keeps its government honest. (or at least minimizes how much the gov fux you)

I also agree - not everyone should carry a gun, perhaps not everyone should be allowed to have one at home. A drunkard? Got a crazy girl? kids? Then no.

Hunting? lets be real, most people in my state hunt for sport and extra meat they didn't need. We do not need to hunt to survive, but yet every year there is an exodus of men to head to the woods to drink and shoot animals. I can hunt, but I chose not to. I only stalk to stay in hunting shape.

A combat range and several guns does not make you a ethical killer. Honestly - I am training to shoot people, I am aiming at human sized targets and practicing multiple opponent scenarios. But that does not make me the trustworthy gunfighter.
It is my ethics that make me a good guy.
Maybe it was crime lab and crime scenes - you get to see what a bullet does. Maybe it was hearing the stories from the actual shooters, both good and bad guys. The bad guys - they never thought it out, how permanent pulling a trigger is. The Good guys - we understood its permanence - people are gone when you kill them. I can correlate a human sized paper target with a human body, and it is sensitive as looking at a real body. I have respect for my targets.
Maybe it was the years of martial arts training, where we were taught restraint in violence, to be defensive and not so offensive. To beat your opponent while still showing him compassion. You also get beat in the dojo, so you know what it is like to be beaten. I don't know what it is like to be shot, I have been shot at - but its only after the fact when you triangulate bullet holes that you realize how close you came to being hit. I get peppered with splattered copper and lead hitting steel around me, I get hit with flyer rounds that bounce back (I got hit in the leg with a .44 mag that penetrated 2 - 4x4 lumber, no wound. My friend gets hit between the eyes with a .357 mag armor piercing round, lil blood lol) - so just like being punched, kicked and thrown in the dojo - you get used to the hostile environment of the range.

I try to believe that everyone has some good in them. Even some bad people in history, must have had some good in them. I know already, there are good people, with some bad in them.

I am not influenced by good or bad, I only see absolute rules.
Active shooters must be killed. Criminals stopped at gun point, can be given a chance to stop. Errant or missed bullets are not acceptable, we account for every shot we make, our name is on each bullet we send.
My favorite absolute rule is : "The good guys always win"

I wish everyone could live in peace and not harm each other. Until then, i train and I mentor shooters.

Those who seek a internal peace in the shit, contact me.

DNR

[DrVirus]

Yeah I would run too !! But there is the possibility of being chased !! By an army !! and trust me buddy u wont wanna face a guy who knows what he's doing with a knife. Those fights last upto 20seconds max . The point is people will kill each other no matter what. We humans are the only species who do kill their own, for no apparent reasons what so ever. Then again we kill everything for no apparent reasons what so ever.

I guess the point I was trying to make was if you have a powerful weapon, the best way to neutralize it is to make sure you are not the only one who has it. Why doesn't nations nuke each other in war ? Cause the other guy might nuke as retaliation. It's pathetic reasoning I know. But it's the only one we humans seem to understand !!


P.S. Looking forward to that vid man !!

DrV

[DNR]

as promised..
[youtube][/youtube]

it was a nice day to shoot..


more later

DNR

[lonewolf]

Sweet video while I was watching you drop the clip and reload I was surprised that the dirt did not affect the operation of the weapon.

[DNR]

That part of the video where I was feeding dropped mags was practice for tactical reload and mag changes. It is possible to pick up junk or even damage a magazine - then you practice "Immediate Action" Drill - of ejecting, clearing, reloading.

I have to recommend L 5 magazine from Lancer Tech - they have metal feed lips while having a plastic body.

I also suggest $6 gloves, those are working/mechanic's gloves. You want to protect your hands, not just from landing on the ground.

I was wearing my new molle' vest with 2 ceramic plates in them, they were actually more comfortable than a level 2a Second Chance vest I used to wear. Make sure you have padding for the shoulders, and inside the vest - ceramic plates are still heavy and hard. Not only does the vest stop 7.62x39 and 7.62x51mm ammo it helps when you bounce off the ground.

BDU - military clothing is stitched to be comfortable at the knees, elbows, and the new ones can insert padding into the elbows and knees. Camo is subjective - it depends on where you need to hide, I do think the ACR camo is the most flexible. Top of the line pants and shirts have built in draw string tourniquets in case you get shot.

I did a LOT of reloading because I did not want a long movie with 30 round magazines being emptied. Also, it is possible to end up with a very sore trigger finger the next day after you dump 400+ rounds in one hour. In reality you will be changing magazines VERY often, so practice that more than shooting. I try to have my hand on a new magazine as the old one falls free from the weapon.

Again - shooting in double taps means you can count the bullets in your magazine - you have 15 'double taps' in a 30 round mag. you should never shoot all '15', but instinctively want to change mags when you are left with 5 rounds in a mag. It is better to reload the weapon while there is a live round in the chamber, as you do not have to hit the bolt release. Although you can see in the video, reloading from empty is not too slow - the thumb of the left hand is hitting the bolt release as the hand comes back to the mag well grip. (Mag Well Grip is the add-on grip attached to the back of the rifle forearm)

I love this shooting range - I get to set up for any scenario with what ever I can find in the garbage dumpster. I can set up for long range 100 yds, 80 yds, 50 yds to superclose like inches.



I think I like those 3D targets from OPSGEAR

They are about $12.00 for 3 shipped. You can fold them back down flat to transport and reuse. Considering you would need paper targets, then a stand to hold them. The OPSGEAR targets 3D just means they can stand with little help.
I dressed mine up in a old t-shirt - "dirtbag brand"

Here you see the knee pads, the gloves, the Molle' vest with 3 mag carrier (to be upgraded to 6 mag carrier) I cannot stress how important the gloves are - do everything with the gloves on - reloading mags, shooting, etc.

I brought my dog, she likes the shooting.

yes I use the law enforcement range, there are about 12 other separate bays just like this one, and then a 100yd and 200 yd range. The 300 and 600 are special events (Hi-Power club) I don't plan to engage with 5.56mm at 300 yds, I will shoot a Remington 700 in 7.62x51mm for those ranges.

Dirtbag at the end of the day


well, this winter weather has been very warm, I think I might go shooting again today...

Oh - that comment, the only words I spoke - "No Samba"
I was hoping someone would catch me wearing an old Samba OS shirt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samba_(software" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

DNR

[ayu]

cool, first time I've seen a moving DNR ^^

Nice shooting

This is what we play with in my country.

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I don't like the thought of having real weapons legalized in my country, but running around and shooting friends for fun isn't that bad
(Hint for those who think I am crazy, it's not a real weapon ^^)

[DNR]

maybe call it a game of adult tag - it is exercise and it is fun (when no one really gets shot!) You have to admit that kind of game playing could be useful if a bad guy shows up.

DNR

[lonewolf]

I like the 3d targets they are pretty cool. From what you posted the price is not too bad either.

[DNR]

check it -

OPSGEAR.com

I also buy my ammo from
SGAmmo.com

other sites off hand -
vtsupply.com
combatoptical.com is ok (some stuff is POS)

local stores
Dick's (I like to walk in and ask the cute girls - is Dick here?)
Dunham's
Dick's carries the metal ammo can of Federal M855s for $170 420rds

forget meijers and Kmart - they got oppressive policies which means you can't find dangerous ammo, like all of them.

Gun and Knife shows are for suckers for the most part, you need the discerning eye to find the few vendors that real want to offer discounts and cool stuff you can't find. Ammo - don't buy old shit.
I found my ceramic plates here - front and back for $200, they are circa 2007 - but never shot! Small stuff like Magpul trigger guard, the FAB Mag Well Grip are priced the same and a bit cheaper than online as you now have no shipping. Since vendors are usually from out of state, some do not charge sales tax.

Federal M855 Green Tips - these are available in lots of 420 or 900 rounds in metal ammo cans. These are penetrators, not armor piercing.
Inside the bullet is a small steel tip, and the rest of the bullet is filled with lead. The steel tip can allow the bullet to penetrate a level 2 bullet resistant vest, glass, and some light metal. But - it cannot damage hard steel (trauma plate in level 2 vest). I recommend these if you have an outdoor range - they are accurate for a 1:9 twist barrel.
You cannot shoot these steel tips in a indoor range, they will use a magnet to do ammo checks to find steel tips. I am not sure what the big deal is as most indoor gun range metal backstops can handle the tiny steel tip. 420 rounds - $145 - 170. 100 - about $350

DNR

[Lundis]

In the Finnish army all that mattered was if you got behind something that could actually protect you from enemy fire - get behind a bush or something similar and you got a failing grade. You had to work with your teammate to get into a position behind thick trees where you were well protected from enemy fire, even after shooting a couple of rounds from your http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rk_62" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I got out about the oldest rifle still in action: a '72 Sako. I got to shoot extra rounds in rated practice shootings because my weapon locked up all the time, real high-tech shit haha