World Economic Fall

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DrVirus
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World Economic Fall

Post by DrVirus »

This is a continuation of the discussion we were having the Lulsecz and Anonymous post. Some interesting points were brought up by both c-thugz and ph0. I believe c-thugz said it is certain that the economy will fall. Well from my point of view, he's very true. Anyone paying attention can tell it's becoming more and more inevitable. Here's an interesting link about the world debt I found a few months back. http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

It's a list of all the countries and their GDP to debt ratio. What does that means ? Well in layman's terms GDP to debt ratio means
This measure gives an idea of the ability of a country to make future payments on its debt. If a country were unable to pay its debt, it would default, which could cause a panic in the domestic and international markets. The higher the debt-to-GDP ratio, the less likely the country will pay its debt back, and the higher its risk of default.
If you take a look at the website link posted above, you will find that some countries are almost sure to default. Greece, Japan will very likely default very soon. But the thing about these people is if you give them anything in a large quantity, they will trade it. Even if it is debt.

So when these countries default they wont go on their own. It's equals to a large ass domino fall world wide. For example. If Japan was to default (they should, after all they have a 197% ratio) they will most likely take a large part of US with them. Why ?? Well Japan holds 1,042.4 billion dollars of Treasury security. Second only to China.

Basically when the slightly large countries begin to default, it will effect the larger countries equally, if not in a worse way. If Greece goes, most of Europe will take a serious hit (Greece owes everyone). So if a particular country was to take a hit in the correct time, dominoes wont stop falling.

What happens then ? Ph0 put up an interesting point of view. He says there will be some inconvenience but their will be a new world order, a better one perhaps. So what are we expecting here ? The world will become a suck-o community ? Their will be some collateral damage but the survivors will embrace the suck ? A sort of evolution process ? Guys let's be realistic here. We are a outcasts for a reason. The majority doesn't share our views. They don't embrace the suck.

I have a different point of view. Call me doomsday prophet or neo anarchist (please do, they both sound nice :mrgreen: ) but I believe it will be the end of society. I believe the humans were never meant to exist in a pack situation. We just picked up the trait from lesser but stronger animals to survive in a physical world. But when the situation changed, when we became stronger and came to the top of the food chain, the cracks began to show didn't it ? Maybe that's why our parents tried to beat the society in us. But no matter how you look at it, humans can't stand humans. They are individuals. Not good for pack mentality. And when the world of society strangles itself in it's own tangled mess, that's what we will finally come to. The ever so romantic term, "Every Man for Himself".

What was it that the Joker said in The Dark Knight ? "When the chips are down, these.. eh these 'civilized people' ? They will eat each other."

Am I wrong ?

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DrV

P.S God that was depressing !! :mrgreen:

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by ph0bYx »

This is pure speculation. But I would like to believe that the human race does not depend that much on pieces of paper for the whole world to go to shit after a possible economy collapse. If the governments are smart they'll let the scientists and engineers rebuild the societies and dump the economist asses on the streets where they belong. (it hurts to see them make huge amounts of money by trading stocks which does absolutely nothing for the mankind and many of the scientists who actually do something productive for our improvement work for peanuts)

It would really nice to see something like the Venus project coming alive.

I wonder if there is an episode of Star Trek explaining how they got rid of the greedy bankers :-k

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by DrVirus »

Of course it's speculation ph0 !! :D Anything about the future will be speculations, can't be facts :D. Just like your post. But do you honestly expect the government to exist after an economic fall which extends to a world wide level ?

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by DNR »

We are outcast, but we learned to live with it.

I think society has grown too attached to technology, that they would not know how to live without it. Take away cars, transport, wal-mart, phones and the internet - and they will fail.

We are flexible people, we hacked so well, because we are adaptable to our situations.

I have been buying guns, ammo, and medical gear. I can pack out on my mtn bike (as cars and traffic will be unmanageable)
I plan to bring the bicycle to the gun range and practice drawing my sidearm while on the bike.

As far as stocking up on food, instead I researched DOG FOOD. Dog food (unlike cat food) is ok for humans. Cat food is not. While every damn human will be scavenging at Wal Mart and food stores for steak and chicken, I will be at the pet stores stocking up on dog food. Its like I don't need to stockpile because I have a source of food that most people will not recognize at first. Next I go to the gun ranges, I know where guns and ammo are locked up.

Now, the US is a pretty big country, some states are more independent of governments and handouts than others. I would feel a state like Montana would do better than NYC in the event of society collapse. More country living than city dwellers. Would the entire country fail? Maybe parts of the US could, but they would be asborbed by a nearby state, not another country.

I do think we can fix the mexico drug war by actually building a wall - aka berlin wall. The narcos are fighting for the access routes into the US, (submarines are not so stealthy they find) So if we block the access route - nothing to fight for.

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by DrVirus »

I guess it is about time we started to sharpen our survival skills. I mean it is no longer an impossible thing like a Zombie Apocalypse (which is still very possible by the way :mrgreen: ). We actually face a very real possibility to face an end of society situation. And it most probably wont be a Hollywood style thing. Keep in mind how you will survive if a day really comes. It will require real skills. Skills you haven't earned in your daily lives perhaps. Put yourself in those shoes and figure out what you must do ! I know DNR is !! And he's about the smartest guy I know.

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by computathug »

Let me say i do feel that there is still a (slight) chance that this could be stopped and people are doing their best to do so. You have to remember there is always good and bad in everything and there is always a solution if you look hard enough. Its knowing what to do and how to do it if it does happen so just be prepared. Never say never!!

So who controls the world and how are they controlling us. We know its down to the people who have the money, nothing to do with who is the president etc, its the people that control them. The oil companies, the pharmaceutical companies and the seed companies.

There are people out there that have been thinking and planning ahead for this time and the only thing that will be important is food and clean water. Some of the greatest minds on the planet have been getting together over the last few years and working out how they can help stop the masses from chaos. We have land that is growing organic foods. We have free energy developments which will change the way we utilise our services. We have medicines to help combat the diseases that the governments are spreading in the air everyday. Together we can make this a better place but it takes us all to change in ourselves.

To defeat it we need to have a True World Order not a New World Order.
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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by DNR »

lol thanks DrV
Actually you said it -
It might not be hollywood style, zombie apocalypse,
'it might be possible to face a society 'situation''
it could be on a state level, it could be a while before federal government comes to help, it could be on the regional, national level -where half the country is destroyed. I do not believe the entire country could destroy itself, at best - states will separate from each other. Some areas will do better - michigan has farming land as well as gas resources, shipping via water, and canada border - other states relying on produce to be shipped in, cities where there are more people than stock, lack of resources and access to escape - will trap people in human riots.

Lets be realistic - when the shit hits the fan, you will be operating at the lowest level of functioning - your instincts and training.

So how many of you put in some trigger time at the range? 50 rounds? or 1,000 rounds? Let's both agree here that playing MW2 on the xbox (with aim assist!) is nothing compared to actually hoisting a rifle to your shoulder, taking aim, firing, and scooting, repeat. If anything is going to happen, it is people will resort to violence to seize vehicles, food, resources like guns, ammo, and water. People will decide to live out their last days in drunken, drugged violence until they obtain 'suicide by cop'.

I know many of you live in countries that restrict ownership in firearms - I feel for you, you're fucked. Let's just work on other survival skills then? I guess the good news in those countries, you won't face too many guns, but of course only the criminals have guns eh?

hunting? no firearms, gotcha. ok.

fishing? trapping, farming? read a few books ok, but have we tried this yet? I have gone hunting, fished, and I grow shit.
In a realistic thought - most people will not be able to farm enough to feed a family for a year - they are in suburbia or the city. Again - fucked.

So what is left? The zombie apocalypse is really, honestly - a tongue in cheek word for "practice shooting waves of humans". You did not really think "Dawn of the dead, Day of the Dead, or 28 days later" was going to happen did you? More realistically it is going to be waves of hungry, angry, needy humans that do not have access to hunt, farm, or forage. They will want your guns, your food, your security, and your women - because all they saved up was some stocks and gold coins for this sad day.

I still think I can sell off this gear if the apocalypse does not happen, so it is IMO a better investment than gold -

M4, gear, ammo about $1,700 to $2,000
Ballistic plate carrier (ceramic level 4) looks like about $700 with US Palms Molle carrier
bug out gear, medical kit - about $500

mtn bike - full suspension, extra power ring, EMP Protected* - $2,000

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by computathug »

Like DNR says its ok talking about it but we all see it coming and look around and see who is doing there homework. Them are the people that you need to work with, we already have bunkers built under houses etc here. I dont use a gun and never had but i am highly skilled with a knife in slaughtering and as a butcher too and know how to train a working dog. Had these most of my life and am highly skilled at hunting.

We have people that are highly skilled in all area's, education included, we have little eco villages set up and land where we have crops growing. We have people who are medically trained, doctors, nurses and we know what to do rather than wait looking around at the chaos we know exactly where to go and where to head for.

Sounds crazy, 12 months ago i would have laughed, now im not so sure!!
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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by DrVirus »

Many of pals keep telling me I have very negative point of view regarding the 'event of the century'. To them I say, guys I wont have any problems partying my ass off if the world becomes a great place to live in after the economic fall. But until that day comes, let me prepare for an apocalypse.

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Like these guys said before me. If worse came to worse we need to be ready. Sharpen up your knife skills. If the world ended, one day you will run out of bullets. Learn how to survive in a non city environment all on your own. Sketch out a plan for D-Day. The guys that lives in the major cities (metros if you will) know this, those just might be the worse hit places of them all. Imagine a city full of people with no real survival skills left on their own. Know your way out. Know a place where you can go. Or at least know how to bunker down till things settle down.

Remember the hurricane Katrina and things that happened before it ? Just remember this time their might not be an evacuation !

@c-thugz, if you have told me the things I just said I would have called you a paranoid hard ass a year ago too. But I guess we aint laughing now brother.

DrV

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by computathug »

Here is the video of inside the house of lords about the whereabouts of the 15 trillion, listen to who the vindicted are.....looks like it is the end of days for someone or assosiation as its all about to come tumbling down. I wonder if this can be resolved before its all hidden with another war.

[youtube][/youtube]

Lord Blackheath is still alive but is scared for his life as you can see, look how nervous he is. I hope he is well protected.
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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by DNR »

Cthug - yea with that much money involved, there had to be more hands in the pot. I wish something like this would happen in our country, some one gets outed for all the money we are missing.

DrV - BTW - what about crossbows, compound bows in your country? These can be pretty effective, certainly better than a stick and knife.

enjoy life while it is here.

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by computathug »

DNR wrote:Cthug - yea with that much money involved, there had to be more hands in the pot. I wish something like this would happen in our country, some one gets outed for all the money we are missing.

DNR
It involves your country as well as mine buddy here is more info into the story.

Code: Select all

On February 16, 2012, Lord James of Blackheath, member of Britain’s House of Lords presented evidence of an illegal scheme begun, he has thus discovered, in 2009.
His documents including originals signed by Alan Greenspan and Timothy Geithner, show the illegal “off the books” transfer by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York of $15 trillion to, initially, HSBC (Hong Kong Shanghai Banking Corporation) London and then to the Bank of Scotland.
The Bank of Scotland, under royal charter but restricted from involvement in any such transactions, simply “gave” the money to 20 European banks to use in a highly profitable scheme of co-trading “fresh cut” MTN’s (mid-term notes), generating trillions of dollars in profits over 3 years, none of which is shown on books, none has been taxed or has benefitted shareholders in those banks.
As Blackheath outlines, the “deception and cover” for this transfer is the imaginary seizure of 750,000 tons of gold by agents of an unspoken entity (confirmed by the highest official sources as the Bush family and CIA), the listed “source” of the money.
The government of Indonesia confirms this to be an utter fabrication and that the individual named had 700 tons of gold (about half of what Gaddafi was holding), not 750,000.  It is noted that only 1,500 tons of gold have ever been traded in world history, as stated in the House of Lords.
The issues that are initially brought out, issues inconsistent with international convention and starting the reader on what is only the surface discovery of two decades of crimes involving dozens of governments are as follows:

        At no time has the Federal Reserve Bank of New York been authorized to hold the funds indicated
        However, documents held by Lord Blackheath prove, conclusively that they did hold such funds and transfer them in a manner as to obscure their origin by using HSBC and the Bank of Scotland.  This process, seemingly involving Alan Greenspan, Timothy Geithner and others would appear to be “money laundering” until some other explanation were found.  None has been offered.
        The “collateralization” of these funds, being 750,000 tons of gold, is proven to be fantasy.  These funds then, in no way or manner, are related to Brunei.  The presentation of this false transaction has been conclusively proven to be a “cover and deception” project such as an intelligence organization would use.
        The transfer of these funds, all done without any authorizations, governmental or otherwise, particularly without agreements, payment of interest to the United States and without knowledge and approval of congress makes every aspect of this criminal in nature, a violation of innumerable statues.
        The receipt and use of these funds by the 20 banks, two of which are Wall Street’s largest, and the use of these funds to generate profits while the funds themselves are held “off the books” and the profits hidden and laundered, themselves the earnings of funds received through criminal acts makes any and all involved part of a criminal enterprise.

WHERE DID THE MONEY COME FROM
There is no record of the Federal Reserve being authorized to “create” $15 trillion, equal to the entire national debt of the United States.
There is, however, proof that funds that totalled, at one time, $27 trillion had been earned surreptitiously, disposed of as part of an intelligence operation against the Soviet Union and then later stolen with accusations made against George H. W. Bush as being the perpetrator.
I have spoken with two individuals, one President Reagan’s intelligence coordinator and the other Chief Legal Cousel for the Central Intelligence Agency regarding these funds.
Both have indicated that former President Bush had asked that these funds, totalling $27 trillion, be transferred to his control, that threats were made by Bush and that many involved in this operation suffered, issues including murder, illegal arrest, torture and detention among them.
The individuals I am speaking of repreatedly met with President  Bush over these funds, disputed his claim to them, and indicate that the majority of the funds are the property of the people of the United States.
These funds are the mysterious “Wanta” funds, monies earned through years of currency trading aimed at collapsing the Soviet Union, a plan originated by President Ronald Reagan, then White House Intelligence Coordinator Lee Wanta and CIA Director William Casey.  I have been told that, while this operation went forward under President Reagan, he had ordered that his successor, George H. W. Bush not be “briefed” out of “mistrust” for Bush.
The funds themselves were earned through a scheme of trading Soviet roubles at enormous profit, a practice that eventually collapsed their government.
A portion of the profits are subject to current litigation in the Federal Court of the Eastern District of Virginia, Judge Lee presiding.  I have over 2,000 pages of documents on this case which shows a remainder of the original funds had been transferred to the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond by the Bank of China, a party to the rouble trading practice, in 2006 and is claimed as totally owned by Ameritrust Corporation.
That amount was $4.5 trillion of which we hold the SWIFT transfer documents.
The other monies, which “likely” make up from the unspent portion of the missing $27 trillion, may well constitute all that is recoverable.
Wanta, sole shareholder in Ameritrust, has offered his companies share, valued by the court now at $7.2 trillion, entirely to the American people as intended by President Reagan.
The origin of the additional funds, issued by the Federal Reserve during the 80s and 90s, totalling nearly $8 trillion is unknown.   High ranking sources within the US government indicate that this can only be either the remainder of funds Wanta raised or profits made from them after the majority of funds were stolen.
Stories, some quite good actually, and personal interviews plus my own review of documents would place the theft or conversion of these funds initially with:

        The Bush family
        The “P2,” a Masonic lodge operating out of Switzerland involved in dozens of terror bombings tied to “Operation Gladio”
        People around Wanta himself including the CIA

What is lacking is a source for half of these funds.  Technically, they don’t exist as there is no record of them being originated by nor transferred to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York though there are clear and discernible records of them being transferred out of that institution which never possessed them, according to their 2010 audit, in the first place.
WANTA MONEY
The transfer of Wanta funds, they can be assumed to have no other origin as they track into the Federal Reserve banking system while in escrow and are currently awaiting payment based on the orders of President Obama in accordance with findings of the federal court, is complicated by the Scottish transfer.
Either Wanta has claim to the entire amount or it is the property of the US government.  That no effort has been made to secure the funds or enforce criminal and civil remedies to recover enough money to pay the entire US national debt and more, as with earnings, we are nearing well over $30 trillion by this time, is an indication that a criminal conspiracy with enough influence to overrule our own government is involved.  Whether that “conspiracy is, as noted, the Bush family, rouge sections of the CIA or a secret society such as P2, one we can prove or others we only suspect exist, is another story.
The lack of action, here or as requested by Lord James in Britain, is, in itself, proof of both the seriousness and actuality of these events and the powers that can prevent any inquiry when irrefutable documents such as SWIFT transfers are available.
In fact, Lord James has offered a wealth of documents which, when combined with the 2000 pages of Wanta “discovery” from the Federal Court, constitutes more than prima facia evidence of money laundering, conversion, terrorism or worse.
Thus, the inaction in the face of overwheming and unquestioned proof is inexplicable.
FLOOD OF WANTA LITIGATION AND INDICTMENTS COMING
Currently, Wanta’s legal status is as technical conservator and owner of $7.2 trillion.  However, as nearly half that is owed in taxes and the court settlement required Wanta to purchase $1 trillion in treasury bonds, the federal government should show positive interest other than President Obama and a few others.
More are being obstructionist with the payout and exercise of $3 trillion in US debt reduction.
This is, not only illegal but an indication of conspiracy.
In addition, Russian Prime Minister Putin has communicated that he awaits the agreed upon 3% payment of Russian taxes, initially on the $7.2 trillion.  Will Putin want to be paid on the entire $15 trillion plus interest and will Russia and/or the US have interest in why the Bank of Scotland transferred these funds to 20 European banks to trade in MTN’s (mid term notes) without any authorization or agreement, any participation or sharing of profits.
As the funds, at least the half which the US government can claim ownership of, combined with the interest and earnings of, would quickly put the US “in the black,” again we look at, not just the press blackout on the Wanta litigation of the last 6 years but the press blackout on Lord James of Blackheath and the wealth of damning documentation he submitted to Parliament.
Nothing has been done since, it is as though the proof submitted was so dangerous that those moments in time have been erased by a mysterious g-dlike power.
What makes Wanta dangerous is that he has begun to distribute funds, some to government entities, counties and states, law enforcement agencies, giving them standing, not just in recovering funds intended for their use but in helping prosecute anyone involved in interfering with or attempting to divert funds.
One grand jury is being formed to investigate diversion of Wanta funds even at this early date.  It is likely that Wanta/Ameritrust funds earmarked for border protection could lead to the indictment of high ranking US officials.  This is only the beginning.
If the Royal Bank of Scotland doesn’t think it should be expecting the biggest chargeback in the history of the world, they are in for a shock.
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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by Stavros »

I don't buy that Japan will default. Namely for the reason that they control their own currency and can issue bonds/print money at any given time. It's what they've been doing for the past almost 20 years. Greece on the other hand is beholden to the ECB (Eurozone's Central Bank). If Greece can't pay the loans they were given to pay off their enormous (for their size) debt then they will default. If that happens then either they would be ejected from the Eurozone and possibly European Union. If that happens then the other high risk countries (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, and Spain; namely Italy and Spain) would also be ejected from the Eurozone/European Union. The problem with this happening is that several large banks, partuclarly in Germany and France (and maybe a couple others, but not to the same degree), hold claims in Greek (and other PIIGS countries) bonds. PIIGS goes down everyone holding those bonds takes a massive hit and potential bankruptcy. I would not invest in stocks. I'd be investing in commodities like gold, silver, paladium, etc. I don't think this is end of the world type stuff although it does have the potential, but I fully expect several decades of anemic growth and high unemployment. Despite what the U3 says they are not counting people that are off unemployment benefits and are not looking for jobs.

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by lonewolf »

Reading all of the posts is interesting. This is part of the reason I taught my family to party like it was 1899. We and grew our own food and canned enough to last about a year and a half. We heated our house with wood or pretty much anything that would burn. Then we decided to get away from the city. We moved from up north to down south for the shorter winter. We purchased a 40 acre farm and started over. Due to a move and lack of a job for a while we survived on what we grew and canned, hunted, chopped and bartered for.
My wife's aunt thought we were nuts but we know we can survive on nothing and do not have to go anywhere to get anything. It is more than I can say for them. The grocery store only has about three days stock in it. I am not too sure what they will do after that. They can't grow, hunt, survive with out power and heat/AC I really feel sorry for them. The wife and I offered to show them how to do some things for themselves and they refused stating it would be easier to go to the store.

I have been watching what has been going on for a long time and never in my history have ever seen a administration trying to crash an economy like what it is doing now. It is not if the U.S. is going to fail it is when and how bad it will be and how long it will last.

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Re: World Economic Fall

Post by floodhound2 »

I hate to say it but I hope the system fails.

I am a fan of disorder and destruction and I admit it. I am the guy that looks at car wrecks and believe me you are too. I love seeing cities demolished and people freaking out, I feel I do my best work in these events. Now before you trash my comments think about it.
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