How-to for beginners

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shunpei
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Post by shunpei »

i agree to that GODhack..that is important for newbie..but one thing is for sure, its your own decision whats the best language you want to learn and just read books or go to tutorials website for you to ba able to learn then apply what you have learned from readings..GoodLuck!!!
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Yayay
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I don't get this

Post by Yayay »

How do u use java applet anyways? :?: :?

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Post by Nerdz »

You need to learn the basic of java first and then http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/api/index.html
Give a man a fish, you feed him for one day.
Learn a man to fish, you feed him for life.

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Sas
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Post by Sas »

Since when is Java more difficult than C++?

I completely disagree with you guys on this one. Java is far easier to learn and program for because it is a managed language. You don't have to worry about Object destruction at all so your garbage collection is automaticaly handled. Plus, you don't have to worry about going out of bounds in data structures which can be a huge problem for newbie c++ or C programmers.

Also Java has excellent documentation which helps the learning process considerably and building GUI's is much easier than learning win32 for c++.

I am not saying Java is better though. C++ is more powerful, but Java is certainly easier to learn in my opinion and development time with Java or C# are usually much shorter as well. Eventually though, I'd recommend learning c++ as well.

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Post by bad_brain »

hm, I think it's a matter of taste Sas. some people find Java easier and some C++. from the view of a total beginner the first steps in both languages are the same, but if it gets a little more advanced Java can be very confusing because of the class model it uses (class declaration in Java already drove many people insane I heard :lol: ) and this is usually the step which takes the most time for a beginner....imo Java is more abstract than C++ (ok, I have to admit I only have very basic C++ skills). but well, on the other side you're right, in the long run C++ is harder because of its bad documentation combined with the massive ammount of possibilities.
:wink:

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Goose
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OS

Post by Goose »

Guys is it possible to hack with Windows XP? or do i need Linux?

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Post by toast »

You can with Windows. It really doesnt matter. The os though, is a different structure....

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Post by bad_brain »

partitially right toast.....but Linux is still the better choice because the networking abilities of Windows are pretty limited compared to *nix because TCP/IP is just like an application on MS, on *nix it's part of the kernel.
but well, XP is still good enough for most issues.... :wink:

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plug
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Post by plug »

is there anything else to use besides ethereal? i can not get it to work..it will not install

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ayu
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Post by ayu »

plug wrote:is there anything else to use besides ethereal? i can not get it to work..it will not install
You can use Wireshark instead
"The best place to hide a tree, is in a forest"

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plug
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Post by plug »

ok thank you, ill give it a try...

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Re: How-to for beginners

Post by G-Brain »

bad_brain wrote:So, download the Java SDK, change the PATH variable to the Java bin-folder and you can start!
Well I wouldn't say changing your PATH, more like... adding to your PATH.

Also, the starting with HTML and Javascript stuff is nice, but to go from HTML and Javascript to an object oriented language like Java or C++ doesn't make a whole lot of sense. What use will that knowledge of websites be learning an object oriented language? If you start with HTML and Javascript, the next step should be a web programming language like PHP followed by the common vulnerabilities such as cross-site-scripting, file inclusion, SQL injection.

Personally, I wouldn't start with the web, but rather a simple and powerful language such as Python, to get great results fast. Python also teaches you a lot of good habits, such as the forced indentation (which can be a real pain in the ass, but it helps you write clean code). After Python, I'd suggest some C and Perl, and then move over to the web: learning HTML, learning how to get and parse webpages using Perl and Python. Learning PHP, understanding file inclusions, cross site scripting and SQL injections, understanding exploits and how to write them yourself. After that, some low-level stuff like some more C and a little assembler, maybe reverse-engineering. Of course, all this is done from a Linux distribution, and easily portable to any other operating system.

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Post by bad_brain »

well, if a total beginner starts with an OOP language the possibility he gets frustrated after a short time is pretty big, I don't think it's real fun for a beginner to spend an hours with debugging. learning HTML is a LOT easier and it is very motivating because with just a few lines of code the user can create nice stuff....what can you create with a few lines of code in an OOP language besides "hello world"?
and I disagree that web development has nothing to do with OOP, there are a lot of OOP compontents in Javascript for example, and this is a good preparation for getting deeper into coding...it's like when you get your driving license, as first car it's the best to get a cheap rusty bucket instead of a Porsche.

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Post by G-Brain »

bad_brain wrote:well, if a total beginner starts with an OOP language the possibility he gets frustrated after a short time is pretty big, I don't think it's real fun for a beginner to spend an hours with debugging. learning HTML is a LOT easier and it is very motivating because with just a few lines of code the user can create nice stuff....what can you create with a few lines of code in an OOP language besides "hello world"?
Python is object oriented, but you can write procedural programs in it just fine, same with Perl and PHP. Debugging in Python isn't hard, the error messages are clear, there really isn't a lot of stuff that can go wrong and there are enough tutorials on the web to guide you.

There's really no comparing HTML and Python, one is a programming language and the other is a markup language. Which one you decide to do depends on your interests.
bad_brain wrote:and I disagree that web development has nothing to do with OOP
That wasn't my point. C++ and Java don't have anything to do with web development (much). From HTML and Javascript to C++ or Java seems illogical and completely off track.

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Post by bad_brain »

G-Brain wrote: That wasn't my point. C++ and Java don't have anything to do with web development (much). From HTML and Javascript to C++ or Java seems illogical and completely off track.
then it also makes no sense to do it vice versa as you suggested....but then again you write you can use Perl for example to parse HTML, now where is the advantage in learning Perl first compared to learn HTML first? if you want to parse HTML with Perl you need to know both anyway...so why not starting with the easier stuff? and btw, applets are still the most used purposes for Java, so it has a lot to do with web dev.

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