germany I love you....NOT!

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germany I love you....NOT!

Post by bad_brain »

well, good old b_b is thinking about leaving this crappy country and immigrate to Canada (if somebody has some experience with this let me know). germany is annoying me for a long time already, and what happened yesterday is just one piece in the mosaic:

I was talking to Maboroshi when somebody knocked at my door, I opened...HOORAY! the GEZ-guy... :roll:
well, I think I have to explain what GEZ is...in germany TV channels are owned by the state, not all of them, on cable you have about 40 channels and 10 are state-ones, the rest are owned by private companies. and because the TV programs are (danger: sarcasm) SOOO great you have to pay 17 euro/month to the state for their 10 crappy channels. and the GEZ is the institution which retrieves the money from the grateful customers.

allright, I always had an an aversion against authorities so I never paid a single cent (well, nobody asked me if I have a TV or radio, so why should I be that stupid and pay voluntarily). but some weeks ago I moved to a new home, so they saw their chance of getting me this time.
here are some excerpts from our sweet conversation:

(Rollins Band was on my stereo, pretty high volume)
GEZ: um,can I sit down? we have to talk about your radio&TV fee
me: nope!
GEZ: could you decrease the volume of the music? it´s pretty hard to conversate
me: nope!

.......

GEZ:we have done scans and found out you have a TV, so you have to register and pay for it
me:WHO scanned me? and how?
GEZ:I can´t tell, I´m just here to get the money
me:the scan must have been done from the outside,right? that an intrusion into my privacy!!
GEZ: it is legal because it´s regulated in the "state contract"
me: I havn´t signed any contract...
GEZ: it´s a contract that the state has made for the citizens, when you have a TV set you have to pay
me:I have no TV
GEZ: we scanned you, we know ou have one
me: I want to see the scan result then...
GEZ: you can´t, it´s not public
me: (pretty angry) you gather data about my person and I´m not allowed to see it?!
GEZ: that´s regulated in the state contract
me: hm,the GEZ seems to be a modern gestapo imo...
GEZ: now,what about the money?
me: for what? I don´t have a TV...prove that I have one...
GEZ: it´s proved by the scan..
me: the mysterious scan I´m not allowed to see?
GEZ: yes
me: I think the scan is nothing but a lie, you just visit people and insinuate they have a TV hoping they are stupid enough to admit it,right?
GEZ: I will call the police now, and the GEZ will sue you then afterwards...so do you have a TV? it´s the last time I´ll ask...and for how long do you have it, so we can charge you for the time you havn´t payed
me: oh, I bought one yesterday!
GEZ: are you kidding?
me: nope...proof that I´m lying if you can...
GEZ: (sighs)...ok, I´ll write in the contract then that you have the TV since April..
(writes and writes)
GEZ: what´s your job?
me: huh?
GEZ: you have to tell me, this information has to be written down in the contract...
me: that´s none of your business, it has nothing to do with the TV fees and I´ll surely not support the gathering of my personal data
GEZ: you HAVE to tell me!
me: allright...I´m an astronaut...
GEZ: very funny...you don´t really want me to write this,right?
me: proof that I´m lying if you can...
GEZ: (sighs and writes "astronaut" in the job-field)


well...now I can "enjoy" TV without having a bad feeling any more, I feel SOOO relieved...

germany kiss my ass:
next stop Canada!

-----------------------------------
astronaut looking for good job on a spaceship,
pm me if you have an offer... :lol:

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Post by Stavros »

That's flat out highway robbery! I just don't understand how they can "scan" for a TV set. That just sounds like bullshit to me. I'd call bullshit and boycott if the TV/Satelite company started doing that. As much as I like TV, I can just download the shows and watch them on my computer.

The days of being slaves to the network are over. People used to be forced to buy CDs (and even before that people were forced to buy LPs as there was no internet), but once people figured out file sharing they blew that wide open. It's time that the networks need to be taught a lesson.

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Post by DNR »

B_B, I had a good laugh at your story, but at the same time shocked that german citizens have 'obligations' to financial contracts. You should question those 'scans' they perform for tv. Several things to consider, exactly how does this device determine it is a tv not a computer monitor? Is this a TEMPEST device? Also, just exactly how accurate is this scan at pinpointing location? If your neighbor has a TV on the wall between your place and thiers, how does it triangulate exactly which side the tv is on?
GPS at best can put your location within 50 feet, so this device can reliably pinpoint a f-ing tv?

Here the police (not some cable company or its collectors) can scan homes from the street (as I imagine they do for tvs there) so its NOT a violation of privacy. They can use IR to scan for hot spots in homes that will tell if you have a marijuana grow room. They can check electric bills for unusual consumption of electricity. i.e a grow room can use 1000+ watts per hour..a tv about 450 watts, but thats the same as a computer setup..Cable companies have their high end boxes hooked up to a phone cable, so they can call and download data - and check if you have a illegal pirate card inserted - you simple do not have the phone hooked up to it, the cable people will call to complain, just tell them your phone lines are down..

B_B, I would welcome you to USA if you decide to move this way..
The health care is better than CA, the speed limits are higher, and the food taste better. Come back to the USA, we were not shooting at you..

1. Rule #1, never answer the door or the phone. They can't do anything if you ain't there.
2. Rule #2, never invite officials into your home - its a plain view search.
3. Question Authority.

DNR
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KILL YOUR TV

Post by DNR »

http://www.tvlicensing.biz/detection/index.htm

The TVLA/BBC/Capita's website [www.tvlicensing.co.uk] states the following on TV detection: "we can detect a TV in use, in any area. That's because every TV contains a component called the 'local oscillator', which emits a signal when the television is switched on. It's this signal that the external aerials on our vans pick up." It also states that hand-held scanner are used to locate television sets in hard to reach places.

... Now, first of all, the actual existence of a fleet of detector vans is a mythology that has been created over half a century by BBC press officers. The vans that drive around are therefore deception vans rather than detector vans. The text below is a recitation of the science involved ...

So what about this 'local oscillator'. What does it do ?

TV's do give off several types of electromagnetic [radio] waves. When switched on, a TV behaves like a low-powered transmitter. Transmitter ? well, yes ... see picture below ...

... Televisions -and radio receivers for that matter- are so called super heterodyne receivers. Incoming high frequency signals [the TV channels] are mixed with the TV's internal oscillator [local oscillator] to produce a lower, fixed-frequency signal [the intermediate frequency of 39.5Mhz] that is used for further processing [audio/video]. Although great care is taken to shield the local oscillator from the mixer, some of this signal leaks back up the aerial/cable. This signal is transmitted for a short distance, but far enough to be picked up by the detector vans.



The frequency of the local oscillator is always 39.5Mhz above the channel received. In other words; the leaking local oscillator signal tells not only whether a TV is switched on or not but it also reveals what channel is being watched. The following formula gives an indication of the channel watched:




TV channel detection examples


Example 1.
The [leaked] oscillator signal received is 793.75Mhz. According the formula the frequency of the TV signal tuned into is as follow:

754.25Mhz = 793.75Mhz - 39.5Mhz

754.25Mhz is within the nationwide channel 56 [751.25Mhz - 757.25Mhz] which happens to be BBC1

Example 2.
The [leaked] oscillator signal received is 841.75Mhz. According the formula the frequency of the TV signal tuned into is as follow:

802.25Mhz = 841.75Mhz - 39.5Mhz

802.25Mhz is within the nationwide channel 62 [799.25Mhz - 805.25Mhz] which happens to be BBC2


Noisemaker !


A TV is also pretty noisy at other frequencies; there is considerable radiation from the timebase scanning coils. These are driven by a pulsed signal at 14.625Khz and so splatter characteristic higher frequency harmonics into the ether. They can easily be detected with a long-wave radio near the TV. The picture below shows three TV set-ups and their point of 'leakage'.




TV detection equipment


BBC Research & Development, Tadworth Surrey [a frequent visitor of this website] is involved in the development of television detection equipment. The picture below shows a 1997 prototype hand-held television detector unit.



In the annual review report of March 2002 the BBC Research & Development department claims the following on their latest technological achievements to catch TV Licence dodgers:


"... The new equipment is controlled by a computer, which presents a very user-friendly interface to the operator. The detection results and all relevant data are recorded automatically. We have added a satellite based live map navigation system which helps minimise the time spent travelling between sites, as well as an automated database showing receivable transmitters at the van’s location. The equipment can show which transmitter is being received, and which channel is being viewed. The van will be in frequent contact with TV Licensing Unit’s database to check whether the viewer has a current licence. All of the equipment is contained within the van without exterior aerials. This offers the choice of covert operation, or alternately of high-profile operation simply by emblazoning the van with an appropriate logo. We are working with BBC Technology to produce a fleet of vans with the new equipment; meanwhile, the development and testing of a further detection method nears completion. Portable detection equipment includes a handheld magnetic detector designed for use where van access is impracticable, and a shirt-pocket equivalent for covert operation."

A TV Detection display screen showing computer generated graphs.


It is BBC Research & Development, in conjunction with Capita, to select a company to take prototype equipment into production.

Click any of the pictures below addressing TV Detection vans.


The 50's Modern TV Detection van TV Detection van in action



Snapshot from a BBC Research and Development publication about the latest technology used in TV Detection vans



Despite all of the expensive gadgets developed by BBC R&D detection of TV Licence evasion depends heavily on an address based system [database called "Lassy"], so if you're not on their supposedly exhaustive list, they nip round, listen really carefully at the door and bust you if they hear Anne Robinson's voice.
Another way of telling someone has got a TV is by aerial spotting. Apparently there is this story about a tv detector man claiming someone had a tv because of the aerial, the man then replied "just cos' I've got milk on me door step doesn't mean I've got a cow."

In addition to the Lassy database, the TVLA/Capita has a database called the Campaign Management Data Warehouse [CMDW]. The CMDW holds records of recent "customer" contacts and demographic information on Postcodes, obtained from third parties. This information is held and used for the purpose of segmentation of mailing activity. For example if a certain postcode is likely to contain student residences, then a special targeted letter, might be mailed to address in the postcode area.



Then again...


The National Audit Office Report of May 2002 [PDF file, 792K] states the following on detector vans: "the BBC is introducing new detector vans with enhanced capabilities to detect when a television is in use. This will make it easier for enquiry officers to establish that an offence is likely to be taking place, although they will still need to secure further evidence for successful prosecution. Detection equipment has been used in conjunction with targeted advertising to act as a visible deterrent."

In other words: detection-evidence only is not good enough for a conviction.


TEMPEST [looking beyond the local oscillator]


This is where we step into the twilight zone. Not sure if the TVLA has 'toys' to be this intrusive ... TEMPEST [Telecommunications Electronics Material Protected From Emanating Spurious Transmissions] is an U.S. government code word that identifies a classified set of standards for limiting electric or electromagnetic radiation emanations from electronic equipment. Microchips, monitors, printers, and all electronic devices emit radiation through the air or through conductors [such as wiring or water pipes].

The emission of electromagnetic radiation [EMR] from computer equipment can be used to reconstruct data. Sometimes referred to as 'Van Eck Phreaking' after Dutch scientist Wim van Eck who in 1985 demonstrated that he could pick up emissions from a VDU [video display unit] and display on a TV monitor.

Electromagnetic Radiation from Video Display Units: An Eavesdropping Risk? The TVLA/BBC/Capita's website [www.tvlicensing.co.uk] states the following on TV detection: "we can detect a TV in use, in any area. That's because every TV contains a component called the 'local oscillator', which emits a signal when the television is switched on. It's this signal that the external aerials on our vans pick up." It also states that hand-held scanner are used to locate television sets in hard to reach places.

... Now, first of all, the actual existence of a fleet of detector vans is a mythology that has been created over half a century by BBC press officers. The vans that drive around are therefore deception vans rather than detector vans. The text below is a recitation of the science involved ...

So what about this 'local oscillator'. What does it do ?

TV's do give off several types of electromagnetic [radio] waves. When switched on, a TV behaves like a low-powered transmitter. Transmitter ? well, yes ... see picture below ...

... Televisions -and radio receivers for that matter- are so called super heterodyne receivers. Incoming high frequency signals [the TV channels] are mixed with the TV's internal oscillator [local oscillator] to produce a lower, fixed-frequency signal [the intermediate frequency of 39.5Mhz] that is used for further processing [audio/video]. Although great care is taken to shield the local oscillator from the mixer, some of this signal leaks back up the aerial/cable. This signal is transmitted for a short distance, but far enough to be picked up by the detector vans.



The frequency of the local oscillator is always 39.5Mhz above the channel received. In other words; the leaking local oscillator signal tells not only whether a TV is switched on or not but it also reveals what channel is being watched. The following formula gives an indication of the channel watched:




TV channel detection examples


Example 1.
The [leaked] oscillator signal received is 793.75Mhz. According the formula the frequency of the TV signal tuned into is as follow:

754.25Mhz = 793.75Mhz - 39.5Mhz

754.25Mhz is within the nationwide channel 56 [751.25Mhz - 757.25Mhz] which happens to be BBC1

Example 2.
The [leaked] oscillator signal received is 841.75Mhz. According the formula the frequency of the TV signal tuned into is as follow:

802.25Mhz = 841.75Mhz - 39.5Mhz

802.25Mhz is within the nationwide channel 62 [799.25Mhz - 805.25Mhz] which happens to be BBC2


Noisemaker !


A TV is also pretty noisy at other frequencies; there is considerable radiation from the timebase scanning coils. These are driven by a pulsed signal at 14.625Khz and so splatter characteristic higher frequency harmonics into the ether. They can easily be detected with a long-wave radio near the TV. The picture below shows three TV set-ups and their point of 'leakage'.




TV detection equipment


BBC Research & Development, Tadworth Surrey [a frequent visitor of this website] is involved in the development of television detection equipment. The picture below shows a 1997 prototype hand-held television detector unit.



In the annual review report of March 2002 the BBC Research & Development department claims the following on their latest technological achievements to catch TV Licence dodgers:


"... The new equipment is controlled by a computer, which presents a very user-friendly interface to the operator. The detection results and all relevant data are recorded automatically. We have added a satellite based live map navigation system which helps minimise the time spent travelling between sites, as well as an automated database showing receivable transmitters at the van’s location. The equipment can show which transmitter is being received, and which channel is being viewed. The van will be in frequent contact with TV Licensing Unit’s database to check whether the viewer has a current licence. All of the equipment is contained within the van without exterior aerials. This offers the choice of covert operation, or alternately of high-profile operation simply by emblazoning the van with an appropriate logo. We are working with BBC Technology to produce a fleet of vans with the new equipment; meanwhile, the development and testing of a further detection method nears completion. Portable detection equipment includes a handheld magnetic detector designed for use where van access is impracticable, and a shirt-pocket equivalent for covert operation."

A TV Detection display screen showing computer generated graphs.


It is BBC Research & Development, in conjunction with Capita, to select a company to take prototype equipment into production.

Click any of the pictures below addressing TV Detection vans.


The 50's Modern TV Detection van TV Detection van in action



Snapshot from a BBC Research and Development publication about the latest technology used in TV Detection vans



TVL promotional material

TVL promotional material [II]

TVL promotional material [III]



Lassy the cow


Despite all of the expensive gadgets developed by BBC R&D detection of TV Licence evasion depends heavily on an address based system [database called "Lassy"], so if you're not on their supposedly exhaustive list, they nip round, listen really carefully at the door and bust you if they hear Anne Robinson's voice.
Another way of telling someone has got a TV is by aerial spotting. Apparently there is this story about a tv detector man claiming someone had a tv because of the aerial, the man then replied "just cos' I've got milk on me door step doesn't mean I've got a cow."

In addition to the Lassy database, the TVLA/Capita has a database called the Campaign Management Data Warehouse [CMDW]. The CMDW holds records of recent "customer" contacts and demographic information on Postcodes, obtained from third parties. This information is held and used for the purpose of segmentation of mailing activity. For example if a certain postcode is likely to contain student residences, then a special targeted letter, might be mailed to address in the postcode area.



Then again...


The National Audit Office Report of May 2002 [PDF file, 792K] states the following on detector vans: "the BBC is introducing new detector vans with enhanced capabilities to detect when a television is in use. This will make it easier for enquiry officers to establish that an offence is likely to be taking place, although they will still need to secure further evidence for successful prosecution. Detection equipment has been used in conjunction with targeted advertising to act as a visible deterrent."

In other words: detection-evidence only is not good enough for a conviction.


TEMPEST [looking beyond the local oscillator]


This is where we step into the twilight zone. Not sure if the TVLA has 'toys' to be this intrusive ... TEMPEST [Telecommunications Electronics Material Protected From Emanating Spurious Transmissions] is an U.S. government code word that identifies a classified set of standards for limiting electric or electromagnetic radiation emanations from electronic equipment. Microchips, monitors, printers, and all electronic devices emit radiation through the air or through conductors [such as wiring or water pipes].

The emission of electromagnetic radiation [EMR] from computer equipment can be used to reconstruct data. Sometimes referred to as 'Van Eck Phreaking' after Dutch scientist Wim van Eck who in 1985 demonstrated that he could pick up emissions from a VDU [video display unit] and display on a TV monitor.

Electromagnetic Radiation from Video Display Units: An Eavesdropping Risk? http://www.tvlicensing.biz/detection/pdf/emr.pdf
This is Van Eck's paper [in PDF-format] that brought emanation monitoring to the public's attention. It's pretty technical stuff.
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Post by maboroshi »

B_B, I would welcome you to USA if you decide to move this way..
The health care is better than CA, the speed limits are higher, and the food taste better. Come back to the USA, we were not shooting at you

Canada the health care is free, People drive fast anyway and we got tons of great restaurants and good food

Hehe My two cents

Maboroshi

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Post by CommonStray »

hm interesting post b_b

I went to school for repair and installation of cable and telephone networks, there are so many hardware devices that can run certain types of scans, like DNR stated. Some can be done from outside on the lines, but some can be done from the company buildings, just depends what they are wanting to know.

About moving: you know i would absolutely welcome you to the USA, although we all know that the US is not the paradise country it used to be thought of. We do have everything here from everywhere, although certain atrributes pertaining to or economy and governement are increasingly becoming serious issues. such as the price of gas or the institution of the Patriot Acts which will give the government powers to invade your privacy under almost no circumstances at all. as time goes by, the US starts to look more and more like a police state.

Canada ive heard is a nice place to live, alot like the US in many ways...but Health Care is not free (Mab ;) ) nothing is free in this world except for little samples companies give to potential customers or the stuff that sits by the road with a cardboard sign that says free (or registering for some websites). your health care is most likely paid for through your taxes...doctors, nurses and the like dont work for free, and i dont care what government it is, theyre not going to pay for it without some return, or some surplus to fund it.

screw the GEZ, you handled that situation admirably.

Circuitbomb

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Post by LaBlueGirl »

While your encounter with the GEZkkops doesn't surprise me, it pissed me off...

<hint hint>
Belgium is cool:)
We have a tv but no cable, and no one knocks at our door:)
Granted, you are taxed outta the arsehole, but it pays for itself through the social systems here.
Even though I don't have a mutuality, when I have to see a doctor it is still *hella* cheap.
You don't need a car (trams, tube, buses and trains),
apartments are pretty cheap, most people even speak some English and because of Belgium's location, you are within driving (or train) distance to Germany.

The US also kicks ass, too.
Cali is cool, but people aren't too polite, the food isn't all that and there is no smoking.
New Orleans ROCKS! 24 hour bars and clubs, even open on Christmas, good food, people are friendly and polite, cost of living is cheap, a lot to do in computers, warm weather and plenty of sun and the winters never get colder than about 16°!!
Texas is boring. Miss. and Alabama are all right, but not as much fun as N.O.
Florida is actually pretty cool, but you have to be in a city area.
Hurricanes are really not much of a problem, as long as you have renter's insurance and a car to evacuate with :) In fact, in all my years there, Katrina was the ONLY hurricane of that magnitude (that hit us, heh).
Never been up North, but it can get pretty damn cold (although you should be used to that).
Healthcare is only free if you are flat-broke and living with your family:) Otherwise, you can expect to pay about....30 bucks a month in premiums and about 50 bucks co-pay for doctor's visits.

If you are serious about moving to Canada, I have a friend who lives there.....
"Hey, Crash!
Ever tried walking with no legs?

It's real slow!"
~Crunch, Crash Bandicoot TTR

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Post by bad_brain »

first of all thanks for all your replies... :D

DNR, that´s real sweet technical info, I think it´s time I grab my soldering iron again and look for blueprints of a scrambling device... 8)
I remember when I was a kid there were these yellow GEZ buses with rotating antennas on the top driving around scanning for TVs and CB radios, but since most people have cable TV here I´ve never seen one again....so I really think the "scan" was nothing but a lie, when I moved to my new home I had to report it to the residents´registration office, and those fuckers surely work (secretly) together with the GEZ and transmitted my data to them.
and like you have seen in the excerpts of my converstation with the gestapo man...umm,oops..the GEZ-man I meant...they are very quick with calling the police and sue you. I already had some legal trouble with the german authorites already, and this experience teached me that it´s pointless...it was 10 years ago and I sued the DMV to give me my driving license back, at the end it took 2 years and cost about 10.000 euro without ANY success.
we have a nice german proverb: "eine krähe hackt der anderen kein auge aus" which means "one crow don´t pick the eye out of another one"....sueing an authority is pointless because the judge is part of the authorities.
but well, if the "state contract" allows the GEZ to scan me I´m surely allowed to scan them too....so I´ll grab my lappy and park in front of the Ministry of Love..umm,the GEZ building I meant,hehe.... :twisted:

and well, I feel the urge to leave this shitty country for a long time already, and the 3 countries which spontaneous come to my mind are Canada, Norway and Japan....Japan is too expensive, Norway have a big problem with unemployment like germany, so only Canada is left. the USA is surely a nice country too but in the last years it got a pretty totalitarian touch in my opinion (no offense against the US people, I mean the government :wink: ), and I also don´t like to live in a country where almost everybody owns a weapon, Canada seems to be very peaceful compared to the USA....but well, I´ll have to make a visit there first anyway and check it out by myself, it has to be well planned because it´s a really huge step (maybe the biggest one in my life).

oh, and Belgium...hmm,well the people are nice there as far as I know, but it seems Belgium has a big problem with legalizing immigrants...but well, I don´t know really much about the requirements to become a Belgian citizen, same with Canada. I´ll inform myself as much as possible, but of course any help would be appreceated, personal contacts are much more helpful than just to read about it.
so thanks everybody, and special thanks to Maboroshi (tha canadian connection)... :D

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Post by Nerdz »

Ps: I'm canadian to... :P If you nedd anyting, just ask
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Post by bad_brain »

sweet man, thanks! :D

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internet creating a global culture

Post by DNR »

B_B,

No offense taken on the us gov. crack, here we have a saying "I love my country, but I fear my government." As a somewhat well-travel denizen, I can tell you all governments suck. Its the people that matter.

The reason we all own guns is a reminder to our government to apply 'checks and balances' on laws, due process enforcement of those laws, to avoid excessive force or punishment. And we don't trust anyone.

I wouldn't say you would feel any tension in the people if you walked any street usa, most people are focused on money, their behavior is borderline antisocial. We are the #1 consumer of drugs in the world, and we are proud of it.

Everytime we have a war, we get an influx of immigrants, usually from the country we are bombing at the moment. Don't think for a moment that us citizens lined up to vote on the latest wars, our government is autonomous.

Everyone owns a automobile. Freedom for the price of gasoline. All Your Oil Wells Are Mine.
Besides "party stores" and gun shops on every block we have a gas station.


I am a pretty outgoing guy for a puter geek, and the usa is not all that bad, I have traveled from one end to the other in the usa and I can tell you that there are still plenty of nice, cool people like me. I do not understand your visa issue as a german citizen, because as an american I was able to travel anywhere in the world I wanted, and did. England, Costa Rica, Mexico, Canada - many flavors and colors, but in the end we are all homo sapien animals sharing the sole living planet. It sucks that we get all wrapped up in the petty shit in life, to miss the real important stuff - living a prolific life.

Enjoyment should not have to come in a bottle or a handrolled blunt packed with budz. Until that happens I need my meds..

I am a nurse assistant on a cardiac unit in a large hospital. I used to be a 3.7gpa IT/CIS student, certified in Novell. I used to be a construction worker. I used to work in a crime lab. I am an old man at 38 years old. I lift weights and mtn bike single track in the woods at high speeds. I live hard and fast, because I want to die standing up.

The internet is my world, here I can leave all the petty shit behind and surf. I feed my brain. All my friends are online, borders, language, religion, physical appearances, money, doesn't matter...Global culture?

DNR
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Post by Stavros »

I can say I pretty much have the same feelings as DNR.

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CommonStray
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Post by CommonStray »

Ohio isnt too bad, the only big thing is our weather...its so spontaneous you could be sun bathing one day and staying in the next, but the summers are real nice and even winter (as much as i hate it) has its beauty and good times. Working, it just really depends on the area you live in. People are very courteous here, and mannerly. Ive never met a person that has came to Ohio to visit and not liked it here. A bud of mine from New York is moving here when he gets out of the Corps and a girl I know from Sacramento comes out to see me for a few weeks every summer. Its the heart of it all, home to Ohio State football, 7 US presidents called it home, and hell we invented flying damn near, Orville Wright was from here. but anyways...

Its a persons right and responsibility to own and carry a weapon, Ohio passed our conceal carry law that allows to carry a weapon legally, criminals dont want a gun pointed at them, they want it easy. Ohio in 2005 was ranked the 23rd safest state in Union with Nevada being the most dangerous (Louisiana was the 2nd most dangerous :p ) and North Dakota being the safest. http://www.morganquitno.com/dang05.htm - the site I found this at

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N.O.

Post by LaBlueGirl »

CircuitB0mB wrote: Ohio in 2005 was ranked the 23rd safest state in Union with Nevada being the most dangerous (Louisiana was the 2nd most dangerous :p ) and North Dakota being the safest. http://www.morganquitno.com/dang05.htm - the site I found this at
You are right, La. is pretty dangerous :)
But what most people don't know or realize is the crime in New Orleans is centralized in one area, roughly a 7 (or 9, I forget) square mile area. The area consists of the New Orleans projects (Calliope, Desire, etc) where guns, drugs and gangs run rampant.
The rest of the N.O. Metropolitan Area is pretty safe, except for the occasional murder (lol, but almost ALWAYS drug/gang related) or DWI. Used to work for criminal defense attorneys, please believe :)
I've seen only one person get shot in my entire life. At the French Quarter. About 5 or 6 shots. Blood everywhere. I was 200 feet away, and pregnant at the time (sigh). The news the next day: Gang related.
Two of my former friends from a life long ago had been shot. They were in a gang and selling drugs.

So yes, it can get pretty gruesome. Stay away from gangs, don't buy your drugs from 'em, stay out of bad neighborhoods, and if shooting starts, DUCK!

Keep in mind: the projects might not even get rebuilt.
"Hey, Crash!
Ever tried walking with no legs?

It's real slow!"
~Crunch, Crash Bandicoot TTR

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LaBlueGirl
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Post by LaBlueGirl »

bad_brain wrote:...and the 3 countries which spontaneous come to my mind are Canada, Norway and Japan....
www.engrish.com
"Hey, Crash!
Ever tried walking with no legs?

It's real slow!"
~Crunch, Crash Bandicoot TTR

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