CMS & The end of Webdevelopers with style..

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FrankB
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CMS & The end of Webdevelopers with style..

Post by FrankB »

Ok, [boring part]
in my former job, i developed the Belgian, Netherland and French sites of TEFAL, Rowenta and other kitchen & housewive furniture. At least I thought i would really "design" their sites but no.. it was my first experience with CMS.
Cough! Excuse me : Microsoft CMS.
Managing channels, updating channels, deleting channels -> managing POSTs, deleting POSTs, managing POSTs and flaming the staff in France because they accidentally deleted a channel or a POST and being flamed by people in Indonesia because I accidentally modified a channel and updated the prise of a cooking pan to the double of its currency in Canadian dollars instead of the exact prize in Suiss francs without the ecology taxes, you got the picture ?
Mayhem.
All that was in `live', 24/24 hrs, 7 days a week and their main sever was called .. "Euthopia" !

Ok, the job was more than well payed but it had nothing do do anymore with real plain old Webdesign/developing, nothing.

Lately, i was rethinking about how at angelfire/Lycos/Tripod they still earn lots of money by hosting webspace for free. Those guys do it still the good old hard way, that is : no CMS but :
-an FTP account
-ugly templates for complete noobs
- easily modifiable pages for advanced HTMLers, CSS guys and JavaScripters.

[/boring part ]

Excactly how I planned to do my business with some [secret] advantages (living in Belgium gives you Internet privileges : nobody takes you seriously, so nobody ever checks if your users hosts PIRATED SOFTWARE or PIRATED MUSIC, hehehe).

So, i thought that setting up a server, an FTP server and some prise-related issues for MysQL and PHP. All the rest,static HTML is 50megs absolutely free.
All that would give me at least some monthly income for my older days.
But no..no.. no...

I checked the raging success that CMS widgets has now on the hosting market and it is f*cking horrible !! They all offer it !
That means that in the close future (American citizens: read 'Now'..), nobody will need Webdevelpers anymore since all domain registrants will have a fully customisable GUI where they have to click on Bold,Italics,Underlined, color, table etc.. Like in Word, to manage their entire website !

1) So far, so good. Skilled webdevelopers will be hired by companies who make CMS software off course ! (and those people can be counted one one hand), all the others that want to earn some money by hosting, well, they'll just have to die, disapear and belong to the past.
Soon we will all read "FTP ?? Isn't that something 'old and dangerous ??", yup, yup, yup...

2) After a while, all websites will look the same.
Well in fact, all comercial websites have always shared or disputed a certain style, you will all remember the famous JavaScript watermark, no ?, the first animated GIF's, no?, the disapearing of frames once server-side coding broke in, remember ?, those ugly bean shaped or standard gray click buttons now replaced by fancy looking CSS shaped click areas, no ?, the fonts that goes smaller and smaler by the years as if what you have to read is explicit pure nonsense, no ?, the appearance of Flash on the scene,?,
Do you all have read what Jacob Nielsen (self proclaimed webdesign-guru) thinks about it all ?
He was right : they wil all f*ck it up : the screens of the surfer's will sson look like a giant commercial and garbage collector of RSS from here, unreadable paragraphs there, nonsense everywhere and especially security leaks will be the same all over the Net, because, in order to run a CMS properly : cliient-side script has to run & flow..

We will be back in the old days, if we resume, when pages where black text on gray background.

3) The future of Webdesign/Webdevelop will be on the programmers level and the hardcore network-specialists : hours and hours and hours of tracking down spurious submission of FORMs, POSTDATA, GETDATA, database-changes, you name it.
Because a lawyer that 'clicks' furiously on his proposed CMS doesn't care about a server error 501, a 404, he justs goes on clicking like frustrated dactylos and typists when working with Word, Excell etc..

4) Graphic designers : go home, change your goals and aim for 3D animations in order to get a job at PIXAR's, no hosting company needs you anymore since everybody will like to work with those 'cute, fancy & trendy' templates'. Some CMS-infested companies just offer you their tainted logos on which you paste yours and if you don't agree, they'll tell you the format is not good or the size id too large.

5) All that astonishes me, I browse less and less, i avoid gOooogle like black death, they are the next monopole for sure, they'll soon offer you "Google-Pizza-Delivery", just wait.

In the meantime, internet will be like back in the old days, from link to link, knowing which place you exactly want to be, bypassing all the mass-media bulsh*t information.

The European Internet has now reached what AOL is in the US.
Let's all start using TEXT-BROWSERS !! :-))))

--FrankB
n00b of yet another nOOb.

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Post by CommonStray »

hmm i dunno Frank, in a recent study 60% of Dreamweaver users code in ASP, not to mention all the other hype media (Flash, Lightwave, etc...) 3d is just a dimension, yea you have hyped templates, but those will only be customizable to a certain extent...i mean cmon, in one of those interfaces will you be able to definitly fix your tables, to exactly where you want them? i dunno...not only that, but a web-dev will have to create those interfaces, i dont think the "web-dev" will be going anywhere soon, with so many variances and abilities through lanuages we can use ie... ASP, PHP, Flash script, .NET, ASP.NET, and other variances, customization through a simple GUI is limited, and allowing a user to fully customize their site would only limit a companies overall income...who wants a website with ad banners and such...blehhh....or popups

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FrankB
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Post by FrankB »

I hope, really hope you are right.

Say, do you have any USA stats about the proffessional usage of WYSIWYG editors except the companies own "charts" ;-) ?
(as if the stats of Macromedia have to be taken seriously).

Maybe i am going to send my work-revue to USA-ICT companies, the European industry sucks anyway, except for Germany and the UK maybe, but all the places are taken there.

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Post by DNR »

I guess I was on the internet in the late 80's. I can tell you that users have changed. We didn't use abreviated shit like 'u r right', 'c u later', etc
We also acted respectable, our internet behavior was professional. Something that was designed for Military and Educational use pretty soon became overrun by commercial and personal (ab)use by the public.

Leave to the humans to fuxor things up.

I used to appreciate the creativity of web designers, I look for Nfomation, easy to browse, and quick loading of course (dial-up back then)

Now days creativity in webdesign is annoying and suspicious - flash and active script could be an attack! Pop-ups? Blocked, so stop wasting time with those. Do I want active images, sound on my webpage? Not really, I want the NFO I came for. Content management is the keyword.

Text-based webpages would save download penalties for some users, text-based webpages load fast and can be secure from active script.
But thats extreme for me.

Be an original.

DNR
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Post by CommonStray »

FrankB i used a few different search engines and strings to look for an overall statistic for the usage of WYSIWYG editors in the US, unfortunatly the only kinds the were retrieved were "company charts" etc... I found this to be odd :? , ill do some more digging.

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Post by bad_brain »

FrankB wrote: Maybe i am going to send my work-revue to USA-ICT companies, the European industry sucks anyway, except for Germany and the UK maybe, but all the places are taken there.
well, germany is a desert when it comes to IT. deals for creating/selling sites here is a question of personal connections because people don´t trust webmasters any more...the reason is that there are too much unskilled idiots out there which would tell anything to a customer (instant #1 on google for example) just to get the money. take a look on ebay, they sell crappy styled CMS-sites for 50 euro already.
well, suck-o is based on a CMS too, and imo a CMS is really good for a non-commercial/community site, because it would be a LOT of work to code such a site by yourself. but for a customer I would never use a CMS, there are enough sites which look the same already, and for commercial success of a site a unique design is inevitable (even if it´s not that "professionally" looking, but most people confuse "professional" with "boring" anyway). people simply lost the guts to be different I think...

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Hacking is unpopular

Post by DNR »

B_B I can appreciate the time you took to grow this forum. Its not popular to have a non-mainstream computer discussion group. They are calling forums like this 'cults'. With all the fuxing idiots online, thanks to AOL, its work to keep a forum clean and stand by your own ethics. Because B_B is not a corporate whore, we don't have to cater to mainstream dumbfuxs from AOL often.

Creating a website is not all graphics, some of it is content, but most of all it is the attitude of the site. I like cryptome.org and TheRegister.co.uk, the way they present the content, the simplicity, and the flavor of NFO I am looking for.
Suck-o has flavor (wtf? is it beef?Fish?) I don't really come here for the news, nor even the downloads. I come here because this is the spot where a few cool people converge. If it wasn't for the site owner, B_B, we'd still be off somewhere else. Perhaps our meeting is not so life changing, but it is cool to meet other people.
Sorta like a bunch of fat guys sitting at a bar every night, talking about work and how their lives suck (hence suck-o? Nah..)

This of course not to be taken seriously.

DNR
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Post by CommonStray »

I like suck-o, because everyday i can help someone, as well as learn something from someone else, instead of a huge corpo-forum of some type, theres cool ppl here, and for me, the time that ive been here has been life changing, ive met and am networking with ppl now that i call friends, friends are life changing individuals, great minds think alike ;)

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Post by FrankB »

bad_brain wrote: well, germany is a desert when it comes to IT. deals for creating/selling sites here is a question of personal connections because people don´t trust webmasters any more...
The same over here, even governamental sites in Belgium are 'drawed' sic est nunc.. with WYSISWYG's like Dreamweaver !
And that's always the . ahum .. skilled 'cousin', 'brother in law', 'niece', of one of the politicians or their young 'nerd-kid' that does the job in between two chat-sessions and a half.
(this is really Out-of -thread, sorry for this but i had to mention it).
bad_brain wrote: the reason is that there are too much unskilled idiots out there which would tell anything to a customer (instant #1 on google for example) just to get the money.
I've read that posting of yours indeed, .. sad!
bad_brain wrote: well, suck-o is based on a CMS too, and imo a CMS is really good for a non-commercial/community site, because it would be a LOT of work to code such a site by yourself.
Exactly ! That's the thing : those who know how use CMS on World-Wide-Web because they have other things to do than rewrite a whole Builletin_Board .. Good one Bad_brain, i mean, as if I would write the existing Perl's CGI.pm module when i want to code FORM-applications, well no, i use the libraries at CPAN. No coder/programmer goes to rewrite the wheel.

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Re: linx

Post by FrankB »

DNR wrote:http://www.ektron.com/ewebeditpro.aspx? ... NC-2000284

[all the links] amongst many others.

DNR
Man,.. thanks ! Because i am a bad GoOgler, really.
Plus : you give me "mind over matter" to promulgate.
I have to say, guys, i really appreciate your feedback on that post !

All of your remarks are witty and i am just happy that poeple like you exist.. in the sense of : making/buiilding/re-coding and critiics/commenting your own way of work and the results.
Good.
Really : G O O D ! :-)
--FrankB
n00b /etc/ --v

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Post by FrankB »

CircuitB0mB wrote:FrankB i used a few different search engines and strings to look for an overall statistic for the usage of WYSIWYG editors in the US, unfortunatly the only kinds the were retrieved were "company charts" etc... I found this to be odd :? , ill do some more digging.
I really appreciate the efforts : it shows your concern for Webdeleopement, disregarding me and my post.
Thanks !

--FrankB

n00b is spelled : and-double-zero-N

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Post by CommonStray »

found this and i want to crash it, unfortunatly i dont feel like having them crash me afterwards...

http://www.pages.google.com/

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Post by FrankB »

CircuitB0mB wrote:found this and i want to crash it, unfortunatly i dont feel like having them crash me afterwards...

http://www.pages.google.com/
... a big carbage, i tell you.

Yaeh... not counting all those useless blogspotters ...
(Now, i admit : i tried, but got easily bored, like writting letters to nobody, don't take me wrong, i have nothing agains bloggers but this, the thing you just submitted, that's ..yet another "My Fine Diary : dear firends/bloggers, kiss, glitter, glamour/ tofay i went .. etc " ,
plus all the spelling errors :-))))

--Frank
While n00b 1, n00b 2 increments by n00b 3 (is that redundant, Mr Eueler ?)
a: yes..

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Post by CommonStray »

well i do admit that i have a myspace account...bleh, it doesnt change often, i use it mostly as a huge link to Flyninja.net, and i do blog on there, but to my own designs...even the other blogger that writes on my site, wrote an article about how much Myspace sucks, hilarious stuff that guy comes up with at times...

id rather like to find technical writers/tut writers or just a few people to give an insight into technology to write to my site, but in time, in time

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