I don't define myself by what society has labled "hacker".
I used the word in a verb sense in my previous post - where I talked about how working with computers was a personal relationship.
I did use it in the title because despite the tarnished image society has done to us - being called hacker is still something to be proud when your peers bless you with that title.
When you say 'don't call me a hacker, just call me a computer repairman' aren't you just playing a name game, while in sense the same thing?
The very same thing you are protesting - the image of 'hacker' is the same thing I was writing about.
Peace brother,
DNR
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He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in Darkness, and Light dwells with him.
f4Gg0t_43 wrote:I'm just wondering why you continue to use a word to define yourself, that the media has corrupted. The original meaning is gone, why do you still use it?
Why not use it ? Media and other corporates have corrupted much of the world as they see fit. That doesn't mean that we must go along with that. They are afraid of hackers be it any of the heads. Don't know about you, but for me that is not a good enough reasons for hackers to be extinct.
Like the conversation in the Red Pill topic pointed out. Hackers are mostly people who are at least a little bit ahead of the curve. Technology wise and hopefully mentally as well.
Now why are we different from other IT experts ? What do you call them again ?? Techies !
Well see it's pretty simple. There are over 100 billion people in this world. About 10-20 % of that number uses computer to do more than facebook, mail or listen to mp3 or watch movies. These 10-20% explore the computer a bit more for what ever reason.
Among these 10-20% a handful of them ever fall in love with what they do. Only a handful wanna learn how virus works, how trojans are made and how rootkits are created. Only a handful wanna know what's with the constant packet traffic that wireshark picks up. Only a handful. That's what I call hacker.
Ph0 is right. It's a state of mind. As others call it, it's a state of insanity. Moudy can give you a better idea about the proper terminology. A person becomes hacker not by becoming member of suck-o or breaking into websites. I don't think someone can choose to a hacker. Either you are or you're not. The hackers can't help it. So what's the point calling themselves a different name ?? The mindset is still the same. They are still hackers.
Okay, okay. I'll take a step back from my usual cynical tendencies, look past the way you are writing stuff, and look at the shit you're saying. Let it be known that I find the way you are getting your point across really fucking strange, but there is still a point behind it all.
I have definitely participated in discussions like this before - about the meaning of the word 'hacking' and what it is to be a 'hacker'. Yes, there is a whole layer of bullshit between the real meaning and what the general public seems to think due to the media, but I'll still call myself a hacker in the right company, if not only due to a lack of a better word. Those who understand, understand, after all. Those who don't, well, fuck them.
I personally think that "being a hacker" isn't just "being a computer geek." I think the word 'hacker' is used to describe the characteristics of someone's personality. A hacker is curious, inquisitive and goes out of his way to understand things. This is why I was called elitist in another thread on this board - because I go out of my way to understand the concept behind things, as well as the practical side of them.
I'd rather write a nasty, procedural implementation of a binary tree in C so I can say I can understand it, than just read up on the theory and then use a pre-defined class in some languages that has it.
I'd like to think that people who don't have much to do with computers can have some of the characteristics of the hacker personality, but this goes the other way around as well, unfortunately, which means there are plenty of people who work with computers and programming(Either professionally or privately, as a hobby, or both) that aren't hackers.
I went to a school that offered some alright, introductory IT courses. There was nothing they could really teach me, but it was fun being able to do the stuff you'd do at home anyway for fun, at school.
Naturally, I thought that most of the people who signed up for the courses would be like me - perhaps even be avid programmers and stuff.
I was thoroughly disappointed.
A lot of them intended on studying computer science or computer engineering, but barely any of them had even touched programming before. What the fuck is up with that shit? If something interests you, why the fuck aren't you insane about it, trying to find every bit of information about it you can possibly find?
Hmm, I guess I digress. But it still relates to the topic, as it shows how I think a hacker is and perhaps even should be. I have been up way too late for probably thousands of hours due to being completely insane about some programming problem I was solving, and that shit started when I was a kid.
Then there are those who think they are interested in computers, but sit with a finger up their rectum, thinking to themselves; "Well shieet, I think I'll just stay here and wait till some idiotic professor spoon feeds be with shitty, out-dated information. I'll make a dandy fucking programmer in the future."
Those who are insane about information are those I'd call hackers. You can't call yourself a hacker before you've sat, surfing the web for some information for several hours, just because you wanted to know it.
DrVirus wrote:There are over 100 billion people in this world. About 10-20 % of that number uses computer to do more than facebook, mail or listen to mp3 or watch movies.
Where are you getting these statistics? Last I heard there was only 6 billion And 10-20% seems a little high, I'd say less then 50% even uses a computer, and less then 10% own a computer, and 90% of that 10% use computers casually (facebook, email, movies, music). This is just my estimation, I couldn't find a reliable source for these statistics if anyone wants to look.
EDIT: About my hacker definition posts: put it this way, would you put "hacker" on your resume?
DrVirus wrote:There are over 100 billion people in this world. About 10-20 % of that number uses computer to do more than facebook, mail or listen to mp3 or watch movies.
Where are you getting these statistics? Last I heard there was only 6 billion And 10-20% seems a little high, I'd say less then 50% even uses a computer, and less then 10% own a computer, and 90% of that 10% use computers casually (facebook, email, movies, music). This is just my estimation, I couldn't find a reliable source for these statistics if anyone wants to look.
EDIT: About my hacker definition posts: put it this way, would you put "hacker" on your resume?
lol @ 100 billion people. DrVirus: research.
Regarding "hacker" on resume - no, I don't consider it a profession. It's an attribute of my personality, or perhaps even the best definition for my personality altogether. If I were an animal lover, I wouldn't put "Animal-loving personality" on my resume either.
I'm just wondering why you like the word "hacker" so much? It's just word. 95% + of people don't have the same definition as you, so why use it? Why not use another word that's more appropriate. It's like... I could say my definition of hacker is rainbows, that doesn't make it the definition...
f4Gg0t_43 wrote: I'm saying that "hacker" is just a word, and the definition is whatever the majority thinks, which would be what the media says. Media says black hat, so the definition of hacker is black hat. Yes, it used to mean something completely different but things change. If you call yourself a hacker, people automatically think internet criminal. So why call yourself it?
The media is nothing more than a bunch of reporters trying to write a sensationalist article, to become more popular and ultimately get a better place at their job. In this particular case they diss the hacker name to make the story more interesting or because they don't know any better.
Don't let a bunch of ignorant reporters, or a bunch of ignorant people influenced by those reporters, define anything for you.
And yes, a lot of people will think of you as a criminal if you say that you're a hacker, that's the direct consequence of those ignorant reporters and people that I mentioned above. But do you really need to call yourself a hacker in front of such people? I might have a hacker mind set but you'll never see me calling myself a hacker, especially not in front of ignorant people. I don't need them to be looking at me as a criminal, I don't need that kind of attention just because I fit in the hacker mind set, I like to work with computers, learn, explore, discover, think different and so on.
Unless you're an attention seeker, don't let everyone know you're a hacker, you won't gain anything than a bad reputation. It's unfair, I know, but that's the world we're living in.
f4Gg0t_43 wrote:I'm just wondering why you like the word "hacker" so much? It's just word. 95% + of people don't have the same definition as you, so why use it? Why not use another word that's more appropriate. It's like... I could say my definition of hacker is rainbows, that doesn't make it the definition...
What is your point, exactly? That someone can have a different definition for a word? Yes, someone could also think rainbows means something else.
You're trying to get me to understand that the word 'hacker' lacks definition, and ergo I shouldn't care about words and their definitions, but yet you are caring by trying to make me use another?
I'm saying that the definition of hacker is what the majority of people think. Which is someone going around breaking into systems, stealing paypal accounts and defacing websites.
f4Gg0t_43 wrote:I'm saying that the definition of hacker is what the majority of people think. Which is someone going around breaking into systems, stealing paypal accounts and defacing websites.
Because of definitions like that the hacker name got a bad reputation. Why would you think the same way that the majority does? The majority is full of ignorant people. They call a person, that you described up there, a hacker instead of a criminal because they don't know any better, thus the ignorance.
If the majority jumps over a bridge don't be the one that follows them, but the one standing on the bridge and laughing at them and their stupidity.
F4,
I am sorry we didn't get what you meant - it is obviously important for you and your friends here want to be helpful to you.
Give it some time, and pose the question later.
DNR
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He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in Darkness, and Light dwells with him.
a unit of language that native speakers can identify; "words are the blocks from which sentences are made";
Words are just used for communication, and the definitions are based on what the majority of people think the definition is. I could use the word hacker to describe rainbows, but no one would know what I'm talking about. It's the same thing, just more exaggerated.
I don't care if you call yourself a hacker, I don't care if people call me a hacker, I don't really care about the definition of a hacker, I just think it's kind of silly to use a word to describe yourself, that has a completely different definition to most people. Sorry for kind of derailing this thread I can't explain very well.
Yes, it's just a word, but we're discussing the meaning of that word. And I don't know about you, but I'm not going to let a bunch of plumber Joe's define it for me.
And 10-20% seems a little high, I'd say less then 50% even uses a computer, and less then 10% own a computer, and 90% of that 10% use computers casually (facebook, email, movies, music). This is just my estimation, I couldn't find a reliable source for these statistics if anyone wants to look.
