Script Kiddies

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lilrofl
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Post by lilrofl »

nah, everyone was a beginner at one time or another... and lets face it; no matter how good we are in one field, we will always be a beginner in another ;)

Plus I think that there is nothing you will ever know so well that it will hurt you to learn somemore :D
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Post by waringers »

So true, so true, for every 1 question answered, another 10 emerge...
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Post by computathug »

'Skiddie' like the word 'Hacker' can have so many definitions. To understand the meaning of what one person is saying has to be taken into perspective of the context it is spoken or written in.

Everyone has to start somewhere and as we are all from different era's then it is different for all of us. The one's of us here that are at lets say.....the older end of the scale will remember using computers before hacking really came about but non the less would have been doing something along the lines of 'quote' hacking as this is who we are. Whether this was in the form of taking something apart to see how it works or whether it was trying to make our bikes, cars etc go faster, there is always something to work on. Even from the age of 9 years old i was interested of how to fix things that were broke when others wouldn't know how or even want to learn how.

From the age of 7 i was introduced to my first computer......the magnificent zx80 which the year after was sold and the new zx81 was introduced. At first for the next couple of years all i wanted to do was play games. At the time we could also use game consoles like grandstand where we could play each other at games like tennis. The game control panels were were built with round knobs so we could twist it to move the point of impact blocks up and down so you can see how much more appealing the computer were.

Soon came out the spectrum 48k with its rubber keyboard which made computing much easier to navigate and use rather than a touch pad keyboard. Software and games were loaded via a tape recorder connected to the PC. Computing took off like never expected and soon there was magazine after magazine to read and programs to type out in basic for another game. I suppose to me this was the first instance of open source software. Some of the games wouldn't work. After hours and hours of reading these magazines and learning what basic could and couldn't do you become familiar with the language and start to try to make your own. if i remember correctly my first program was a tune which played in beeps.Sometimes you could type for hours from a magazine to play a game that sounded awesome to find that there were errors in the code. The idea was to fix the code, get the game working and write into the magazines about the fix. Games that you bought could often have the same problem. You would plug in the tape recorder and load the game to find that just at the end as it was about to load you would get a message along the lines of

Code: Select all

error at line 746
L break into program
It has been a while......around 28 years so please dont quote me on that :lol:
I remember trying to fix the errors and then looking for the randomize usr number and then running the program to fix it. This to me was my first computer hack, getting a game to work.

I gradually moved on to commadore64's and 128 systems and got a grade A in school for IT. After i left school work was such a big factor in my life that i never had any interaction again for around 6 years. The next time i did was when i had been sent away for a few years and decided i wanted to do something that interested me and get the most out f the system. Now when you are in the penal system there is no way they will allow internet access but i was luck enough to have computers that used windows 3.1 and windows 95 as well as systems that ran basic too. The next few years were spent wisely and when i was finally released in 98 i enrolled in Uni to do Business Information Technology where i was learning cobol and pascal.At first i used the internet for knowledge of what i was doing and soon realised there was so much more resources available to me than i first realised. I had a student account where i could access the college network and get dial up for free though the access was very limited it was a start. One of my first assignments was based on the difference between hackers and crackers and this is where my first thoughts of the subject really came from with a very big interest. After a while i dropped out of college as i couldn't afford to go and i had to inevitably go back to work which also meant i had no internet once again as the job i was then doing was moving around the country at very short notice to drive plant machinery.

A couple of years later and i was back online and was interested in how computers worked once more and saw how much more advanced they had become in such a very short time. This is the point of where my self became a skiddie for a short time. Yahoo was widespread and using booters etc was for a week, quite fun. The skiddie in me wanted to advance and was soon learning about how they worked and how to make my own. The reason for this was that most of them had backdoors just like it is better to use your own programs now rather than someone elses if you know what you are doing.

Skiddie to me was the fact i was using someone else's program to cause havoc on the net even though i never had a clue what it was doing behind the scenes. Someone who is a skid to me no is someone who wants to destroy something they know nothing about. Someone who types into google a bit of code to find a random unsecure webpage and then follows instructions to destroy it is a skiddie. The one's who can target a known website and find the vulnerability themselves have something they can work with.

Good luck on your own journey's where ever it may take you, just be true to yourself and others around you, do unto others as you would have them do to you!!!!

Rant over :D
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Post by nightkid »

i wonder how often intermediate black hats that have a bit of skill are mislabled as skiddies based on the fact that they both have malicious intent :-s
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Post by ph0bYx »

nightkid wrote:i wonder how often intermediate black hats that have a bit of skill are mislabled as skiddies based on the fact that they both have malicious intent :-s
For me black hats are criminals that act professionally, they target a victim, do their thing, and disappear without a word said. No one knows if they did it, what they did, how they did it, nothing.

While on the other hand, if a skiddie did it you can easily find brags about who did it (group or individual's nick, and very often an email too), what they did and how they did it, on several sites that are listed on progenics top100 list.

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Post by DNR »

black hats have the same issues as white hats - skiddies.
A black hat hacker, a cracker (get it - CRiminal hACKER) can be skilled, or be clueless like a skiddie.

ethics is a consideration for skiddies - if you have a williness to learn the right way, and possess good ethics - some might take the time to mentor the skid to a real hacker.

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Post by floodhound2 »

I have a problem with white hat and black hat.

They both can manipulate and or break a system. I just think that it is the person and the law at the time of incident that will label you as a black or white hat.

It just boils down to "who" you piss off and who, the "who" is!

I mean why should I let "anyone or any government" tell me what I can and cant do?

If my computer gets compromised then "my fault" not the hacker.

Because I am ignorant and left my wallet on the sidewalk - someone walks by and picks it up they are a bad person.
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Post by DNR »

if you dropped your wallet, ignorant or not, it will be the ethics of the person that finds your wallet - that will define what happens next.

That is the example of the ethics. To take it further, I do not consider finding a wallet or server left unsecured a black hat act - thats opportunity. A black hat, would actively try to obtain that wallet, pick pocket, robbery, false pretenses. A white hat, has no interest in the wallet, but the process used by the black hatter.

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Post by floodhound2 »

So DNR what defines ethics? Is it our cultures influence? Is it the way we are brought up?

I suppose if I found a wallet I would return it - up to a point. A thousand dollars in the wallet perhaps. What if it had a million? I would think hard about ethics. I know I would consider keeping it. If it were a good friend or not there is a cut off point, not just for me but everyone. A Billion dollars a million I don't know everyone has there point of turning "black hat."

My point being is that who make the point of turning? Who decides?

You see an opportunity running a cretin process on a server and you decide if its ethical? Its new no one else has discovered the "Hack" but you so now you are the decider also?

I hope this is not too confusing (on my part) - I have a hard time putting in words what I am thinking.
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Post by nightkid »

DNR..finding the wallet is just circumstances, a black hat would take advantage of what inside of it and a white hat would do exactly the same but for a difference reason, example looking at a driver license to return it without even counting the money.

floody, ethics are a mixture of how your brought up, the time your brought up in and how your brain is wired to perceive things.
it depends on the amount of cash thats in the wallet, a couple hundred is not worth ripping off someone..return it to the license address
but if there is a substantal amount of money in the wallet you have to wonder why someone would carry that much cash with them, espically with having that much they would most likely have an account to keep it in and the smarter thing to do would carry a card you could cancel..would make you wonder what they were going to buy that they couldnt use a card or money order for *cough cough* so thus maybe they dont need the cash back.
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Post by l0ngb1t »

mmmm it's not about if they need the money back or no
we can't just suppose something
you found something that it's not yours... ethically you should return it,
the point is "it's not yours"...

ask your self what's the right thing to do no matter what you are facing...
even if you are a black o a white hat, both will know if it's wrong or not
but the choice you make is what this is all about
a white hat would return, a black hat will know that he the right thing is to return it but he decide to keep it :wink:
There is an UNEQUAL amount of good and bad in most things, the trick is to work out the ratio and act accordingly. "The Jester"

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Post by IceDane »

l0ngb1t wrote:mmmm it's not about if they need the money back or no
we can't just suppose something
you found something that it's not yours... ethically you should return it,
the point is "it's not yours"...

ask your self what's the right thing to do no matter what you are facing...
even if you are a black o a white hat, both will know if it's wrong or not
but the choice you make is what this is all about
a white hat would return, a black hat will know that he the right thing is to return it but he decide to keep it :wink:
No. You claim to be 'an outcast of the society' not defined by its norms, but you are still brainwashed to heed their laws.

I'm not saying I'm going to go all cyberpunk on you guys and say I'm some modern day rebel, etc. It's stupid and immature.

However, there is really nothing that says you *have* to obey any laws, or any societal norms.

If someone drops their wallet, doesn't that simply mean the person that does it doesn't care for their things properly? If it contained a million, one could easily say that the previous owner was a complete imbecile, not suited to own the million dollars. It would be used for much better things in your hands.
Of course, there are circumstances that would change that.

The point of this, however, is that while you will get cops on your ass and get dragged away to jail if you are found guilty of a severe violation of the law, there is nothing that says they can. Life doesn't come with rules. We made them.
Ethics don't come with it either. There is no wrong, and there is no right. There is only what you think of your own actions, and how others perceive them. Most will consider taking a wallet to be wrong.

And for god's sake people.. Drop the 'blackhat/whitehat' shit already. Using those terms in some pathetically futile attempt at categorizing the human psyche is just ridiculous beyond anything I could possibly explain.

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Post by DNR »

Icedane, this is a hacking forum - did you expect that the human psyche would be compared with feng shui, or religion, or Carl Jung? If you know so many better ways for us to do things around here - please do share..

It is disappointing that certain things like ethics and honor - have no value in the new generation.

The old generation, there was value in your character. People used to be able to trust a person on their word - I guess I don't expect the new generation to understand what they might have never experienced. People used to have respect for other people, because of that person's character.

Your ethics define your actions, your actions define who you are, not just to other people, but to yourself. Some people do not put any value on their character - they dont' work on it, they don't cultivate it - because society defines it for them.

That might be a cultural effect and thats why people from one side of the world might disagree with someone on the other side.

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Post by Big-E »

I think IceDane is right on. There is no right or wrong, there is only interpretation. That very interpretation is defined by Social Mores, which can be influenced one way or the other and unfortunately, often is.

What we can do is think for ourself and establish our own morals, virtues and interpretations, usually these are derived from parental figures or people you have a tenancy to idolize. Unfortunately, there are too many people in the World today that idolize celebrities and I am very persistent in suggesting that this is a large causation of everything wrong in this World today.

In short: If what I THINK is right, is not the same as what YOU THINK is right, does not make it wrong. This is what a court/tribual/judicial system is supposedly for and of course, this system is also flawed. Nothing is perfect, people, theories or otherwise. That is a fact.[/b]

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Post by IceDane »

DNR wrote:Icedane, this is a hacking forum - did you expect that the human psyche would be compared with feng shui, or religion, or Carl Jung? If you know so many better ways for us to do things around here - please do share..

It is disappointing that certain things like ethics and honor - have no value in the new generation.

The old generation, there was value in your character. People used to be able to trust a person on their word - I guess I don't expect the new generation to understand what they might have never experienced. People used to have respect for other people, because of that person's character.

Your ethics define your actions, your actions define who you are, not just to other people, but to yourself. Some people do not put any value on their character - they dont' work on it, they don't cultivate it - because society defines it for them.

That might be a cultural effect and thats why people from one side of the world might disagree with someone on the other side.

DNR
I can see what you mean. But I'm not a fan of the philosophy "If you can't do it properly, then we just do it half-assed." Categorizing psyches so you can put them into boxes is so far from actually explaining the nuances of each and everyone's psyches that have just as much influence on their decision as the "inner blackhat/whitehat" or whatever you guys call it, that it's just wrong.

In my personal opinion, every debate about such things(The human psyche) should be littered with statements that make it clear to everyone that reads that everything said is just theory and speculation.
It shouldn't be full of generalizations just because that's the best thing you can do in an attempt to understand it.

In this case, especially, it makes as little sense as possible. If you were talking about some general attributes of some humans' psyches, that would be cool. But you are trying to generalize how people will react in a specific situation, where there are a million circumstantial variables that could affect the person's decision, on top of the variables provided by the fact that everyone's psyche is different.

As to honor, ethics and character. I value these things myself. Just because I was able to point out that laws and ethics aren't life's own rules, it doesn't mean I'm unethical.
If I were to find a wallet with a lot of money in it, I would probably keep the money, and throw away the wallet to make sure I wouldn't get caught.
Why? Because I deserve it. I'm a poor student and we only barely have enough money to get through the month. No savings or anything. I wouldn't mind having a nice amount of money form my girlfriend and I to buy some nice things.
I'm talking about a lot of money though. Chances are if someone is walking around with the amount of money I'm thinking, they'd have to be rich anyway. Of course, it could be their life savings, but that would make them stupid.

If it was an amount that wouldn't necessarily change my life, for at least a while, then I would just return the wallet to the police and get the finder's fee.

This however, does not in any way, affect my decisions as a computer enthusiast. I do have the skills and the know how to make money on the internet illegally. Why don't I do it? Because my pride, honor and ethics don't let me take the easy way out.

Anyway, I have to run. I might pop in and comment on this later if it's still going.

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