0 is not a number.

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Dltr
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Post by Dltr »

p4inl0v3r says : This discussion makes me trippy
Errm .. What is the meaning of trippy if I may ask ( i mean linguistical) !
and no 0 is not a number, nor a letter. It is an animal, I saw it yesterday at the zoo
LOL !

Well -0 and +0 , the concept of these identities need to be further illustrated. For once 0 is not equal to -0 or +0 maybe yes in magnitude but NEVER in approach. It can be explained by the concept of limits. -0 would be when you approach 0 from the negative side of the number line and +0 is when you approach 0 from the positive side

Well i think you are definitely right solely because the Signed zero echoes the mathematical analysis concept of approaching 0 from below as a one-sided limit .. In calculus, a one-sided limit is either of the two limits of a function f(x) of a real variable x as x approaches a specified point either from below or from above.

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Last edited by Dltr on 19 Jan 2010, 15:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by DNR »

trippy meaning it is expanding in the mind. :wink:
This is one of those nice, thinking threads.

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Post by Dltr »

Oh Thank You DNR :lol:



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Post by Necrix »

IceDane wrote:
If hydrogen is a gas...and oxygen is a gas...then water must be a gas, too!
Water CAN'T be a liquid..because hydrogen and oxygen are gases! O_O


Really..


..Who told you that 0 isn't a number?

Are you under the impression that 0 is a letter?
It seems that you both completely missed the point and failed chemistry.
No. I had a point, too. He was saying you couldn't have 10 because 0 "isn't a number." It's like he was saying 10 = 1 + 0. 10 is a whole new number from both 1 and 0. My intention was to point out that combining two things will..or can..result in something totally different from either of those things individually.

EDIT: By the way, B_B..I couldn't pass this up lol:
Bad_brain wrote:imo 0 was the spare tire for mathematicians when they ran into problems they couldn't explain with their "absolute truth"...so they invented something that can be kinda anything.
This made me think of what variables are to coders and hackers. ^_^
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Post by moudy »

Necrix wrote:If hydrogen is a gas...and oxygen is a gas...then water must be a gas, too!
Water CAN'T be a liquid..because hydrogen and oxygen are gases! O_O
hahahaha looool
the scientific explanation is that both gases and liquids fall under the category fluids, the only difference is density. :wink:
how two gases make a liquid ? well, it all goes back to how bonds are formed between atoms, which are affected by atom polarity, and bonds positions etc.

As for the "0" thingy, the explanation is simple:
every number is a set, where the nuber zero is simply an empty set,
set 0 = Ø
How zero came to be known, well people wanted to make their life easier, so they made the zero.
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Post by Gogeta70 »

This topic IS trippy lol.

I don't see how anyone can see zero as NaN.

Base 10:

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 <-- a set of 10 unique numbers, which repeat after the 10th number (that is, 9) after adding 1 to the next place which quantifies a value based on it's position by the following expression: 10^x*y where x = the position of your quantifier and y = the value of your quantifier.

Example:

127 <-- starting from the right you have 7 in position 0, 2 in position 1, and 1 in position 2.

Let's use 127 as an example.
x = 0, y = 7
10^0*7 = 7

x=1, y = 2
10^1*2 = 20

x = 2, y = 1
10^2*1 = 100

100+20+7 = 127.

I hope that explains what i'm trying to say. As a number, zero is a filler: one hundred, zero tens, and zero ones means 100. As a value, zero is important because it allows you to define a lack of any real value.
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Post by Lundis »

moudy wrote:
Necrix wrote:If hydrogen is a gas...and oxygen is a gas...then water must be a gas, too!
Water CAN'T be a liquid..because hydrogen and oxygen are gases! O_O
hahahaha looool
the scientific explanation is that both gases and liquids fall under the category fluids, the only difference is density. :wink:
how two gases make a liquid ? well, it all goes back to how bonds are formed between atoms, which are affected by atom polarity, and bonds positions etc.
An element is an element. Not a gas, liquid, solid, plasma or Bose–Einstein condensate. These are just ways matter can appear in. How it appear depends on temperature and pressure. Cool oxygen enough and it'll be solid, heat iron enough and you'll get a gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_%28matter%29

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Post by moudy »

Lundis wrote:
moudy wrote:
Necrix wrote:If hydrogen is a gas...and oxygen is a gas...then water must be a gas, too!
Water CAN'T be a liquid..because hydrogen and oxygen are gases! O_O
hahahaha looool
the scientific explanation is that both gases and liquids fall under the category fluids, the only difference is density. :wink:
how two gases make a liquid ? well, it all goes back to how bonds are formed between atoms, which are affected by atom polarity, and bonds positions etc.
An element is an element. Not a gas, liquid, solid, plasma or Bose–Einstein condensate. These are just ways matter can appear in. How it appear depends on temperature and pressure. Cool oxygen enough and it'll be solid, heat iron enough and you'll get a gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_%28matter%29
under normal conditions is the focus of study in physics, then we study material in different conditions.
I mentioned bonds and atom polarity in the post above.
Best explained in organic studies, alkanes, alkenes, alkynes.
same elements carbon and hydrogen, will form different states, due to difference in bonds.
probably I'm mistaken, It's been a while I haven't read such stuff. :roll:
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Post by l0ngb1t »

guys stay in the topic :P
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Post by Necrix »

l0ngb1t wrote:guys stay in the topic :P
Thanks

XD You guys...that first bit was *sarcasm*.

And, hydrogen and oxygen as commonly found in nature.(I thought this was implied)
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Post by Dltr »

Necrix wrote
XD You guys...that first bit was *sarcasm*.
:D


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Post by leetnigga »

floodhound2 wrote:The square root is a waste of time to learn its a mistake in mathematics.
bad_brain wrote:yeup, you can dot until you drop, but even mathematics goes the wrong way from time to time.... :lol:
The fact that sqrt(n) == n^(1/2) does not make the square root function a "mistake in mathematics". That's like saying tan(n) is a mistake because it's equivalent to sin(n)/cos(n), or that positive integers other than primes are a mistake because they can be defined in terms of primes.

I don't like this thread because it's about nothing.

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Post by IceDane »

leetnigga wrote:
floodhound2 wrote:The square root is a waste of time to learn its a mistake in mathematics.
bad_brain wrote:yeup, you can dot until you drop, but even mathematics goes the wrong way from time to time.... :lol:
The fact that sqrt(n) == n^(1/2) does not make the square root function a "mistake in mathematics". That's like saying tan(n) is a mistake because it's equivalent to sin(n)/cos(n), or that positive integers other than primes are a mistake because they can be defined in terms of primes.

I don't like this thread because it's about nothing.
Amen.

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Post by floodhound2 »

Its a mistake because you can not have (square root -25) where you can have (25^-1/2) they are the same but one was a mistake.

It became obvious when math evolved as in using imaginary numbers, in the Cartesian coordinate system for example, or in electronics. Sure you can fudge it but why learn something that becomes redundant and confuses little kids.

In calculus this will be much clearer. As well as having a 0 in the denominator of a fraction. [-o<
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Post by leetnigga »

floodhound2 wrote:Its a mistake because you can not have (square root -25) where you can have (25^-1/2) they are the same but one was a mistake.
No, those are not the same.

sqrt(-25) != 25^(-0.5)

sqrt(-25) == (-25)^0.5 == 5i

25^(-0.5) == 1/((25)^0.5) == 1/sqrt(25) == 1/5 == 0.2

There is no "mistake".

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