Personal safety!

[IceDane]

The best defense and even offense, is awareness. When my sensei said "Don't be there", he was not talking about the distance between you and your opponent's attack, but also about the situation.
Smart people have foresight, it is not intuition, but the ability to plan and foresee possible scenarios and outcomes. You try to position yourself to avoid areas or situations with high probablities of bad outcomes. You are positioning yourself to be a hard target. While you are in a bad neighborhood, and predators are looking for any target - they will always avoid the hard target. If the losers do mistake you for a weak target, you will be prepared.

It is not about weapons, it is about awareness of what is around you and positioning yourself.

DNR

I can not believe you guys posted so much during such a short period. I did not expect that much attention.

Well I agree with what you said. The ability to foresee possible scenarios and outcomes is one of the best weapons. Although I like to be prepared. Thinking about possible scenarios is one way to prepare. Although I would also like to be prepared by having a few things ready in the worst case scenario. If nothing else than having an aid kit close by. For instance if you get hurt at least you do not have to look for some bandages while you are dripping blood every where.

Yes, pepper spray is legal and I can buy it. I just need an identity card. I can get a big can of pepper spray designed to knock out a bear. So maybe that could come in handy.

A good idea would also be to have some home made weapons. Maybe if nothing else than a rope to swing at some one.

Have you ever been in a fight? Have you been close to being in a fight, or rather, have you often been in a volatile situation that could turn out, well, not in your favor?

If not, why are you obsessing over personal protection through weaponry?

If so, see last sentence.

[Big-E]

Have you ever been in a fight? Have you been close to being in a fight, or rather, have you often been in a volatile situation that could turn out, well, not in your favor?

If not, why are you obsessing over personal protection through weaponry?

If so, see last sentence.

IceDane Big Fighter. He Viking. He Wield Big Axe.

This is IceDane


PS. I am on the Dragon in the background.

[IceDane]

Have you ever been in a fight? Have you been close to being in a fight, or rather, have you often been in a volatile situation that could turn out, well, not in your favor?

If not, why are you obsessing over personal protection through weaponry?

If so, see last sentence.

IceDane Big Fighter. He Viking. He Wield Big Axe.

This is IceDane


PS. I am on the Dragon in the background.

"Hotlinking not allowed"

The point is not to honk my own horn, but rather to discuss whether or not this guy really needs weaponry. I'm a big guy, I've been in a lot of fights, and I often get into volatile situations.. Do I start carrying a knife or a gun or home-made weaponry? No.

I wouldn't carry pepper spray personally due to the pussy factor(And because I'm just that hard core), but if you want to go for anything, go for something legal. Guess what happens when you plead self defense after beating the shit out of someone with iron knuckles?

Don't drop the soap.

[bad_brain]

if life has taught me one thing it is: people calling themselves "hardcore" are usually the biggest wussies of them all. same for people that remark how much fights they had already, how big they are (pic? weird that the biggest loudmouths usually never show their faces, right? deja vu, deja vu....).
I have to say your attitude really begins to piss me off.....I have the feeling 1 or 2 people will have to leave this site soon (maybe you 2 can visit me then and be hardcore...but oh, wait, that would be real life then, best wear some diapers).

[IceDane]

if life has taught me one thing it is: people calling themselves "hardcore" are usually the biggest wussies of them all. same for people that remark how much fights they had already, how big they are (pic? weird that the biggest loudmouths usually never show their faces, right? deja vu, deja vu....).
I have to say your attitude really begins to piss me off.....I have the feeling 1 or 2 people will have to leave this site soon (maybe you 2 can visit me then and be hardcore...but oh, wait, that would be real life then, best wear some diapers).

You seriously need an internet humor/sarcasm detector. Really bro.

To be perfectly frank, I'm completely and absolutely devoid of any feeling that would remotely resemble regret in any way, when I hear that my attitude is beginning to piss you off. You may be this site's owner, but if you're going to ban me for expressing my own opinion - well, hey, that speaks for itself, doesn't it? And if people would be good with that(I'm sure that there are more people here that I piss off, but I'm talking about the principle of banning someone for having different opinions than others and the gut to express it.) that says volumes about the people who are part of this community as well.

I'm not sure what it actually is that is pissing you off about my post. Is it the fact that I am not promoting carrying illegal weaponry to protect himself, or the fact that I'm doubting the need to even go to such lengths?

Yes, that is what I'm doing. I'm a big guy does not have to equate to "I am a massive motherfucker whose muscles provide enough power for me to crush human skulls with one hand." It simply means that I'm taller and wider than the average person. That's not an estimate. It's a fact.

I'm not sure either how I'm being a bigot by stating that I've been in a lot of fights. I know a skinny guy who's been in a lot of fights. I also know a guy who's been in a lot of fights but lost most of them.

Both of those statements were just parts of my point; I've experienced shit, but I've never, not once, felt the need to carry a weapon - let a lone an illegal, concealed one.

As to me not showing a picture of myself; why would I?

Is this the real world? You and a few others here might look at this as their little corner of the internet with a bunch of buddies that you can share pictures and stories with, which is all well and good, but that's not what this place is for me. I hardly know you guys, and I'm not about to share pictures of myself with a bunch of random people.

By the way, for future reference; the "internet tough guy" approach never works. It's incredibly stupid in general, seeing as I probably live thousands of miles away from you and I am more or less anonymous, and it's particularly stupid when it's coming from a grown man(Which I assume you are.)

Either way, you are the owner of this site, and you can do whatever you want. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that.

[computathug]

Have you ever been in a fight? Have you been close to being in a fight, or rather, have you often been in a volatile situation that could turn out, well, not in your favor?

If not, why are you obsessing over personal protection through weaponry?

If so, see last sentence.

IceDane Big Fighter. He Viking. He Wield Big Axe.

This is IceDane


PS. I am on the Dragon in the background.

"Hotlinking not allowed"

The point is not to honk my own horn, but rather to discuss whether or not this guy really needs weaponry. I'm a big guy, I've been in a lot of fights, and I often get into volatile situations.. Do I start carrying a knife or a gun or home-made weaponry? No.

I wouldn't carry pepper spray personally due to the pussy factor(And because I'm just that hard core), but if you want to go for anything, go for something legal. Guess what happens when you plead self defense after beating the shit out of someone with iron knuckles?

Don't drop the soap.

Not everyone is "A Big Guy". Not everyone looks for fights or are the type to even get involved in them. These people are often an easy target for so called "Big Guys" or bullies. You can end up in prison for being involved in violence whether a weapon is involved or not. One thing prison doesn't let you do is run. No matter how big you are you are there for the taking. In some people the violence is an adrenalin no matter how big you are. Oh! And i don't carry a weapon but doesn't mean i never have. I am happily retired and am happy i don't have to contend with what the youth today have to contend with. No i am not that old and it also doesn't mean i am rich. Camera's everywhere you go and everywhere you travel. They can relate to where you were by a lot of electronic information right down to the area you were in and the time you made your last phone call. Even where you used your bank cards last. They killed the football violence scene, well, along with the rave culture too. That didn't help.

I have also seen a lot of "Big Guys" underestimate some "small guys" and get knocked the fuck out. Some times disputes are unavoidable as personalities clash. Its also different to each situation you are in. Being in a pub with a group of friends and having a brawl is not the same as being there with your partner/wife and have to think about 4 yobs. Your first instinct would be your partner. If you were on your own then you would weigh up the situation differently. So i might knock out 4 of em first, you could say. What about the one that's left abusing and attacking your partner/wife. If you were on your own you would just see how many you could hurt and see which will run and see which will fight.

Every situation should be looked at differently but always look for the weak points. Even if it's a way out it's a weakness in there defence. If its to fight hit the first that gets near to you and make sure he goes down. He would generally be the one with a point to prove. The ones who will stand back at that are the one's that are there for show and the one who comes next is the one they all follow.

In today's society there are not many people left with morals or those that don't know what please and thank you means or what's right or wrong or even the meaning of respect your elders. Today's society there are youngsters, teenagers, the youth of today and attacking 1 person for fun is a regular occurrence. Then you also have the scum of the society that attack old people. Thieves from all directions.

Don't forget your other class of people where violence doesn't interest them. Some people will go through life without having a single altercation. Not every body is the same. Some people are just unluck enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some people should prepare with pepper spray or any other legal or illegal means to protect himself and his family. No matter what the consequences.

[lilrofl]

Hey Lyc =)

I'm not a big guy, and I try to avoid fighting at all cost. It's just not worth it in the end. WHen i was younger I had a big mouth, and i got into altercations from time to time... but most people grow out of that as they get older.

When i was 14, pepper spray just started coming into the civilian market, and a friend of mine had a bottle. I had to try it out, to see if it worked as advertised. So I sprayed myself.

It hurts, yes you can work through the pain... but not only is it not easy, it's not desired. Anyone who wants to argue this point is welcome to youtube themselves 'working through it'

Now pepperspray isn't a complete solution though, and this is what i think people are talking about when they say pepperspray doesn't work... you see, eventually it wears off, and there is no permanent harm done to the person sprayed. So between the time you spray them, and the time the spray wears off you have some decisions to make. Whether it be call the police, or work em over with a skateboard... pepperspray alone is not a complete solution.

But I wouldn't say it's a 'pussy' solution either. Work smarter, not harder my dad always said.

As an additional bit of knowledge, I have also been tazed and stun gunned, and while I would have to say that a tazing is amazingly incapacitating, to use a stun gun effectively you have to get pretty close and personal with your assailant.

Again, pepperspray, no risk of long term harm, has a decent range, little training required... and makes a good seasoning for top rammin noodles.

I would fill this last section up with reasons you should not engage in physical confrontation... but that's not the point of the thread, and some times you jusst need to punch someone in the neck... I understand =)

Cheers =)

[bad_brain]

@IceDane
it is not limited to this single thread, you seem to have the tendency to dumb people down if their opinion is different from yours, and you have shown this attitude repeatedly already...all irony (maybe all I wrote is irony too? who knows?) for me it looks more like the good old "I am the owner of the truth, if you don't agree you're dumb and I will tell you HOW dumb you are"-attitude. you talk about "having guts" to express your opinion when it's different to the one of others...that might be true, but you still have to respect the opinion of the others, don't demand something that you are not willing to give too.

but hey, maybe we are all not intelligent enough for your superior irony that enabled you to piss off 3 staff members in a single thread, and another one asked me today if your only purpose here is to flame. labeling every offense as "irony" is for me just a lame excuse for not wanting to check for own mistakes....and when this even happens repeatedly (and it did) it is also a sign for not giving a shit about the site rules (ever read them?).

You and a few others here might look at this as their little corner of the internet with a bunch of buddies that you can share pictures and stories with, which is all well and good, but that's not what this place is for me.

that's the point: it don't matter at all what this place is for you as long as you stick to our rules. you came here voluntarily, and so you are the one that have to decide "do I like the attitude of those people here or not?"...if you do: welcome. if not: bad luck, we will not change just to fit your idea of how a site/community should be, best look for something that fits better then.

By the way, for future reference; the "internet tough guy" approach never works.

as master of irony I've expected you to notice the irony of others too, as if I would expect people to travel to germany to fight with me in front of my home....gawd. but well, maybe it's a valuable lesson for you to be on the "other side of irony" this time.

[IceDane]

@IceDane
it is not limited to this single thread, you seem to have the tendency to dumb people down if their opinion is different from yours, and you have shown this attitude repeatedly already...all irony (maybe all I wrote is irony too? who knows?) for me it looks more like the good old "I am the owner of the truth, if you don't agree you're dumb and I will tell you HOW dumb you are"-attitude. you talk about "having guts" to express your opinion when it's different to the one of others...that might be true, but you still have to respect the opinion of the others, don't demand something that you are not willing to give too.

but hey, maybe we are all not intelligent enough for your superior irony that enabled you to piss off 3 staff members in a single thread, and another one asked me today if your only purpose here is to flame. labeling every offense as "irony" is for me just a lame excuse for not wanting to check for own mistakes....and when this even happens repeatedly (and it did) it is also a sign for not giving a shit about the site rules (ever read them?).

You and a few others here might look at this as their little corner of the internet with a bunch of buddies that you can share pictures and stories with, which is all well and good, but that's not what this place is for me.

that's the point: it don't matter at all what this place is for you as long as you stick to our rules. you came here voluntarily, and so you are the one that have to decide "do I like the attitude of those people here or not?"...if you do: welcome. if not: bad luck, we will not change just to fit your idea of how a site/community should be, best look for something that fits better then.

By the way, for future reference; the "internet tough guy" approach never works.

as master of irony I've expected you to notice the irony of others too, as if I would expect people to travel to germany to fight with me in front of my home....gawd. but well, maybe it's a valuable lesson for you to be on the "other side of irony" this time.

That was a smart way of dealing with it. I've read your posts, I've seen the way you write - you weren't being ironic. =) But hey, as long as you think so.

Don't worry - I am perfectly aware of the fact that I may sometimes be a bit quick to jump the gun, and people who I've known on the internet for a while will acknowledge this, along with the fact that I will in fact apologize if that is indeed the case.

The incidents where I may sound a bit condescending that you are referring to are not about differences in opinions. Right is right, wrong is wrong. Some people are able to just go "Hehe, yeah man, I know" when someone just spews bullshit like there is no tomorrow, but I'm not. If there is one thing I do not like, it's people who are wrong but refuse to admit to it.
The square root is not a 'mistake in mathematics', and you do not reach the conclusion that Ubuntu might be broken in a way that makes it hard to get online in it because two, entirely different machines in separate places of the world running it by using logic.

But you are right - this is in effect 'your community' and I am at best an active poster. I did not come here expecting you or your community to change, and I most certainly did not come here to proselytize everyone, using profanity and insults if I wouldn't get my way. That is not how I operate, and that is not how I have operated.

There is no doubt - I can be an asshole. But if you are wrong, you are wrong, and it's entirely your fault. If I see you are wrong, I will point it out. If you are wrong but you try to argue it is a difference of opinion, and you keep being wrong and misinform others, my tone will change. That's just how it is.

If I start an argument or debate about something where I think I'm right, and I end up being wrong, I will apologize, especially if I end up being .. less than civil in the process of trying to proving you wrong.
You'll probably see it happen eventually.

Please note, all references to "you" in the text were not directed specifically at you, but at anyone who reads this.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[DNR]

icedane - its funny - you want the mercy of "I am perfectly aware of the fact that I may sometimes be a bit quick to jump the gun, and people who I've known on the internet for a while will acknowledge this" - while you 'don't care to share (pictures) with 'complete strangers'.

I guess you might have a forum somewhere, where you invested time and effort to get to know its members, and they, you. They might acknowledge your personality, and even respect your POV - because there - you might have actually built a real relationship.

This is NOT a public forum. This ain't Yahoo! or MSN Chat - this is a project by BB, and his friends. At anytime - anyone can have their membership revoked, including mine. The staff is expected to co-exist to make the forum work to BB's satisfaction. There is no vote by members, there is no legal recourse, you basically have no rights here

You can keep your relationship with suck-o on a platonic level - taking what you need, and leaving whatever you feel - but you can't expect the same respect as someone that invested time and compassion for other members. Relationships can change, but it needs both sides to 'negotiate' the terms.

DNR

[bad_brain]

right DNR, but with a little correction:
I want the forums to work for the satisfaction of ALL members, and this means everybody should be handled with respect...no matter if the person has skills like Linus Torvalds or more like Fred Flintstone..

and actually it don't matter if you are right or wrong about something as long as you express yourself respectfully, there is a huge difference between:

dude, sorry, but this is simply wrong because...

and

shut up, you have no idea what you are talking about

I know, on many (most?) other sites a little flaming for image cultivation is normal, but I don't like that, and that's one of the main reasons I've started suck-o 5 years ago. suck-o is not real life, it is supposed to be better.

and IceDane, don't think that I "don't like you and want you out of here", because in this case we wouldn't have this convo...you would have gotten and email saying "you're banned, bye." or simply find your login not working anymore. but when I see a user begins to establish an attitude which is contrary to what suck-o stands for I might watch it for a while and ask once or twice (or even more often) to "please be nice" (and I did), but if it doesn't seem to change anything there comes the point when I have enough....and then I tend to escalate it in order to clear things up once and for all. you are not the first one who had to experience this, and you will most likely not be the last....even people that are now staff members had to went through this.

simply try to see suck-o as party at the home of a friend where you don't know most of the other party guests....you can either take it slow at the start and once you became acquainted with them (and vice versa) you can make stupid jokes, be ironic, etc., and everybody will laugh and say "hehe, well, that's how IceDane is"....or you can jump into the crowd and do this right from the start, but then you risk to be misunderstood and run into unexpected reactions.

from my side all is said, and I hope we can close this chapter now and go back to the fun part...

[Lyecdevf]

I have not yet had the chance to read all your great posts but I just want to say some thing. I see that this thread I created generated a bit of tension so I want to clarify a few things.

It is was not my intent to get people to argue but to debate. I was wondering what to do in case some one was to attacks me or some one from our house hold. I asked this here because this forum has always been very helpful to me. When I had computer problems I came here to seek advice. So I figured I might as well ask this here. Why go to some other place to ask?

I agree that avoiding fights is the best solution. I have been doing that all my life but what if you can not. I figure it is better to be prepared than sorry. That is why I have joined this forum in the first place. So that I can be better prepared to face any internet threats.

I reckoned this would not be any different than any other question that I have posed. As for instance am I safe on the internet with this sort of operating system, this sort of configuration and this sort of activities! So this time I asked a similar question. Am I safe with just a pepper spray or do I need some thing else? It is really simple! I did not expect any one to say...hey I am better than you because I have been in many fights. Hey, I have been in many fights. Most of the time people do not even bother to throw a fist at me because they know I can hit back harder.

[bad_brain]

the trouble was not really because of your question, it was because of something that was already simmering for a while in the background...sorry it blew up in your thread...

now to your question:
pepper spray is surely not bad, at least it's way better than a knife....even if it's for self-defense, when using a knife it will most likely end with YOU being the one going to jail...and not the one who attacked you. I've posted something about a guy in germany a while ago who was attacked by a couple of highly aggressive people, he defended himself with a small knife he was carrying on a chain around his neck, he was sentenced to prison because of "excessive self-defense". even if it's not your intention you always have to face the accusation of accepting the chance to kill your opponent.

in the city where I live there is a lot of violence, the train stations are crowded with aggressive drug dealers for example, lots of drunken people on the streets after dark, etc.....but I don't carry a weapon with me, at least not one that can be really labeled as one: I simply wear my beloved Dr. Martens steel cap boots, a hard kick with them can easily break a shinbone. of course there are situations where such boots not really fit, they are surely not the best when going to a club to dance for example....
but if you are willing to train a little I can highly recommend a kobutan (or kubotan? seen both writing versions), it has the size of a ball-pen and kinda looks like a sex-toy, but it is a highly effective self-defense weapon if you know how to use it:

even in germany it is legal to carry it (and we have very restrictive weapon laws), and you can easily carry it on keyring for example.
you don't have to train years to be able to use it properly, if you have a martial arts club near you they will surely show it to you for a small fee within a few days...you just need to know the most effective spots to hit and some simple grip/lever techniques (you will surely find some info on youtube to get a first idea).
and, in opposite to a knife, it is not labeled as deadly weapon....with a kobutan the goal is simply to create a shock by causing severe pain....which is enough to be able to escape. and when you know what points on the human body are the most effective you can even easily knock someone out with a single hit without causing permanent damage.

additionally it's very cheap, shouldn't cost more than pepper spray.



P.S. here is a small teaser:

[DNR]

Thats a Kubotan, and yes it is a nasty weapon. It fits pretty decent as a keyfob too - the keys can also be used as a whip.

You got the idea - find a balance. You want to blend in, you want to have acute awareness, and arm yourself within reason.
While I too am a big guy, trained, and love fighting - the pepper spray just helped avoid fights you don't want to get into.
I think that with proper awareness, I have been able to avoid many undesirable circumstances, I trust my instincts and leave when it tells me to! People get in trouble when they start complicating things or second guessing themselves. Don't.

@Ice and BB - I agree - this would not even be in a thread if you guys did not want to work it out. I hope you guys can come to an agreement of mind - otherwise I know who is NOT being banned from his own site

DNR

[nightkid]

sometimes the best weapons you have are your fist. i been pulled over a few times with a larger than average knife on me and questioned, tell them it's for self defense and they come back with who am i starting trouble with.

if you carry pepper spray keep it on a belt loop, if it's in your pocket you can accidently spray it on yourself, not fun.
with a knife you have to be within arms length to use it and things can get "dicey" and the person could likely have a gun which out weighs your knife automatically
i carry a .357 magnum or a .44 magnum with me when im in the car or on the bike, the down side to guns are their as easy to use as pulling a trigger, my dad told me when i bought my first pistol on my 21st birthday "son, if you ever pull that out on somebody, you better be ready to use it"

a side note when dealing with guns is don't get something you can't handle..example i let one of my friends try out my .44 mag and he held it with both hands and let it fly up and bust him in the head but i can shoot it one handed comfortably so if you get a gun make sure you don't get "too much gun" for yourself